#029 Simmo - Why Men Have LOW Testosterone (And How To Fix It Naturally)
Simmo beat testicular cancer and more than doubled his testosterone levels in 90 days using natural methods. Now, he helps men optimise their testosterone levels naturally without TRT or medical dependence.
> During our discussion, you’ll discover:
(00:03:04) Why is testicular cancer becoming more prevelant
(00:05:38) Why is low testosterone becoming more common
(00:11:43) TRT in men
(00:15:34) The issues with trying to stop TRT
(00:17:09) How is testosterone produced in the body
(00:20:57) The difference between primary and secondary hypothyroidism
(00:23:54) Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG)
(00:28:45) How does Simmo help his clients
(00:34:19) Supplements to boost testosterone naturally
(00:41:04) Diet for testosterone enhancement
(00:46:04) Biohacking
(00:51:43) Health testing
(00:57:05) Various rapid fire qeustions
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Transcript
Hello and welcome to the VP Life podcast,
Speaker:the show where we bring you actionable
Speaker:health advice from needing minds.
Speaker:I'm your host Rob.
Speaker:My guest today is Simo, a testicular
Speaker:cancer survivor who, through trial and
Speaker:error, developed a system to help him
Speaker:optimize his hormonal
Speaker:health and regain his vitality.
Speaker:Expect to learn how Simo overcame a
Speaker:cancer diagnosis and then tripled his
Speaker:testosterone levels, how testosterone is
Speaker:optimally produced in the human body, and
Speaker:how Simo is able to help clients optimize
Speaker:their own levels without the use of TRT.
Speaker:Now, on to the conversation with Simo.
Speaker:Good morning Simo.
Speaker:This one's been a long time coming and
Speaker:after a lot of back and forth we were
Speaker:finally able to make it happen and I'm
Speaker:excited to chat all
Speaker:things testosterone with you.
Speaker:Timing is actually pretty spot on too as
Speaker:we recently hosted Sonya Spill from Vinyl
Speaker:Coaching to discuss female health and
Speaker:optimization thereof.
Speaker:So it'll be good to complete the picture
Speaker:in this regard, the male side of things.
Speaker:First things first though, your story.
Speaker:I know it started on the back end of a
Speaker:cancer diagnosis which is what then led
Speaker:you down this path to helping men then
Speaker:optimize their own testosterone levels.
Speaker:So yeah, if you could give us the
Speaker:breakdown there and then we can jump into
Speaker:the nuts and bolts of
Speaker:today's conversation.
Speaker:Yes, that was a rehearsed
Speaker:part and yes, I'm proud of it.
Speaker:Thanks for having me on
Speaker:Robert, it's good to be here.
Speaker:So, yeah, about 10 years ago when I was
Speaker:20, I got the dreaded C word that you
Speaker:certainly don't expect but you definitely
Speaker:do not expect it when you're at 20 and
Speaker:that really was a pivotal point in my
Speaker:life because as a young man, I thought I
Speaker:was invincible, I thought I could do
Speaker:anything and then suddenly my masculinity
Speaker:was being questioned in ways that I could
Speaker:never have quite
Speaker:comprehended to be honest.
Speaker:And then I had a procedure, I came out of
Speaker:that and then after the operation, I
Speaker:started dealing with a lot of low T
Speaker:symptoms that really plagued my life
Speaker:after that which were low energy, low
Speaker:drive, lack of confidence, very insecure
Speaker:and so it was a mixture of emotional
Speaker:symptoms and physical symptoms around
Speaker:gaining muscle and all of these other
Speaker:desirable effects that can come from
Speaker:having optimized T levels.
Speaker:So through trying an error and making
Speaker:hundreds of mistakes and trying every
Speaker:diet under the sun and all of these
Speaker:different modalities and protocols, I
Speaker:finally three or four years ago stumbled
Speaker:across a protocol that I now call the
Speaker:TESTA2X method that got me feeling happy,
Speaker:healthy, driven, ambitious, all of these
Speaker:kind of aspirational traits as men that
Speaker:we need to dominate
Speaker:the lives that we want.
Speaker:So that's where I'm at now.
Speaker:Yeah, those alpha characteristics.
Speaker:I'm not a cancer biologist by any stretch
Speaker:of the imagination but it is pretty
Speaker:fascinating that so many young guys,
Speaker:especially sort of well under 40 tend to
Speaker:sort of end up with testicular cancer.
Speaker:I know it's a bit of a long shot, but can
Speaker:you speculate as to why
Speaker:that maybe is the case?
Speaker:Yeah, I think it's a
Speaker:really good question.
Speaker:I think it's a really good question
Speaker:because I think a lot of people associate
Speaker:cancer with something
Speaker:you get when you're older.
Speaker:They associate it with like genetic
Speaker:dysfunction as you get older and it's
Speaker:interesting because you've got cancers
Speaker:like testicular cancer that are more
Speaker:prevalent in younger men from 2030.
Speaker:So there's a bit of a kind of paradox you
Speaker:could say there, which
Speaker:I think is fascinating.
Speaker:I think the reason for that, my suspicion
Speaker:is our environment has
Speaker:become extremely toxic.
Speaker:What I mean by that is our exposure to
Speaker:heavy metals, to xenoestrogens, to
Speaker:plastics, to aluminum and deodorant,
Speaker:there's a myriad of substances that are
Speaker:now pervasive in a lot of things that we
Speaker:kind of take for granted and we just
Speaker:assume are innocent and maybe okay when
Speaker:actually they're not.
Speaker:And if you stack all of these different
Speaker:kind of micro stresses up that have all
Speaker:these toxins in, whether it's your
Speaker:deodorant, your skin care products, your
Speaker:foods, your, you
Speaker:know, there's a long list.
Speaker:If you stack that up over a long period
Speaker:of time, you know, the body can become
Speaker:overwhelmed and I'm convinced, I'm
Speaker:convinced there's a compelling hypothesis
Speaker:that the reason I got testicular cancer
Speaker:was because at the time I was living a
Speaker:very toxic lifestyle and if I think back
Speaker:to that time, there was things that I was
Speaker:doing that may not have been conducive to
Speaker:good testicular health, put it that way.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:Yeah, it's definitely a nuanced question
Speaker:and it's sort of something I did a bit of
Speaker:research into just sort of in preparation
Speaker:for this podcast and specifically that
Speaker:question because yeah, like I said, it is
Speaker:fairly nuanced and I discovered anywhere
Speaker:that the testes are formed primarily from
Speaker:what are called germ cells and those are
Speaker:more likely to develop into other cells
Speaker:whereas you have, they are pluripotent,
Speaker:whereas you have your things like, well,
Speaker:not things, but cells like heart cells
Speaker:that generally aren't affected as they
Speaker:mature and they're less likely to become
Speaker:mutagenic and
Speaker:diversifying to other sorts of cells.
Speaker:But yeah, I suppose that's a tangent,
Speaker:probably something best
Speaker:had with an oncologist.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah, I probably actually
Speaker:need to get one of those on.
Speaker:Yeah, anyway, testosterone.
Speaker:So as you've already alluded to, or one
Speaker:of us has, it's an epidemic and there are
Speaker:lots of guys with low T at the moment.
Speaker:Now you've already alluded to some of the
Speaker:reasons as to why that has become, as to
Speaker:why it's become such an issue, but do you
Speaker:have beyond that any suspicions as to why
Speaker:we are, as a society, are struggling,
Speaker:well, the men in our society are
Speaker:struggling with low T levels?
Speaker:Yeah, I think it's a really good question
Speaker:because, and I think it's quite a complex
Speaker:answer because I think it's so
Speaker:multifaceted because I do think if you
Speaker:think about what underpins our vitality
Speaker:and our vibrancy in terms of how it's
Speaker:aligned with high testosterone, it's
Speaker:like, well, how do you, what are key
Speaker:habits or ways of living that have been
Speaker:proven that can be detrimental to
Speaker:testosterone levels?
Speaker:And I think we're now with screen use and
Speaker:our sedentary lifestyle
Speaker:and convenience culture.
Speaker:I think that's getting increasingly more
Speaker:endemic and I think people are finding it
Speaker:increasingly more difficult to eat whole,
Speaker:eat whole good food, to go and do some
Speaker:exercise and move more, get outside.
Speaker:All of these kind of basic things that I
Speaker:think we take for granted, I think are
Speaker:just not as popular as they were, let's
Speaker:say 50, 60 years ago.
Speaker:And there's a reason why our grandfathers
Speaker:had double the
Speaker:testosterone that men do now
Speaker:in terms of lifestyles that they were
Speaker:living relative to now because you just
Speaker:didn't have the same amount of stresses.
Speaker:And I do think now with phones and the
Speaker:culture that we live in, there is a lot
Speaker:more, stress seems to be more persistent
Speaker:throughout the day, not only
Speaker:in terms of the way that we
Speaker:approach our work, but also things, you
Speaker:know, 56 years ago where they didn't, you
Speaker:know, agricultural
Speaker:practices were different.
Speaker:We didn't use the same amount of
Speaker:chemicals that we did.
Speaker:Skin, you know, all of the personal care
Speaker:products were very different.
Speaker:You didn't have the same additives,
Speaker:preservatives, all the
Speaker:rest of it like you do now.
Speaker:So I do think that there is a myriad of
Speaker:different elements that are in our
Speaker:lifestyle that have evolved really quite
Speaker:drastically from 50, 60 years ago.
Speaker:And I do think it's for the worse.
Speaker:And that's having a huge impact on our
Speaker:toxicity load and therefore, you know,
Speaker:our body's ability to thrive and feel
Speaker:good, you know, as it pertains to
Speaker:testosterone and other
Speaker:hormones and everything else.
Speaker:You know, it's not just testosterone.
Speaker:It's so it's very comprehensive.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I mean, I couldn't agree more
Speaker:on that makes total sense.
Speaker:We recently had Dr.
Speaker:Jenny Goodman on the podcast and will be
Speaker:interviewing Adam
Speaker:Parker in the next few weeks.
Speaker:And they're both steeped in that side of
Speaker:it, the terrain theory of
Speaker:why we get unwell to society.
Speaker:Yeah, just this high toxic burden that
Speaker:then has this trickle down effect on the
Speaker:way that mitochondria function and the
Speaker:hormones, etc, etc, etc.
Speaker:And yeah, it's just it's very simple when
Speaker:you understand how these systems break,
Speaker:what's more challenging is then sort of
Speaker:putting them back together.
Speaker:As I found both my own experience and
Speaker:with working with with
Speaker:with people along the way.
Speaker:It's a simple system to break.
Speaker:It's that it's not as easy
Speaker:one to put back together.
Speaker:It's very much a case of Humpty Dumpty.
Speaker:Dumpty had a great fall and fell apart
Speaker:and all the king's horses and all the
Speaker:king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty
Speaker:back together again.
Speaker:I know that obviously hormone
Speaker:optimization is to one is
Speaker:maybe somewhat easier than that.
Speaker:But when you get more complex sort of
Speaker:along covid sorts of
Speaker:issues, it is it is a problem.
Speaker:I would I would add as well, I think
Speaker:something that I see a lot of clients is
Speaker:like we overlook a lot of people look at
Speaker:testosterone and isolation.
Speaker:You know, they they see I have got low T
Speaker:and therefore they
Speaker:think that that's the cause.
Speaker:And actually, we mentioned all the
Speaker:environmental factors.
Speaker:But like, for instance, I see a lot of
Speaker:guys that have got dysfunction.
Speaker:We know like gut inflammation is
Speaker:inversely correlated with with
Speaker:testosterone levels.
Speaker:The same with cortisol.
Speaker:We know cortisol is is is very inversely
Speaker:correlated with testosterone.
Speaker:And the same with thyroid function.
Speaker:If you've got thyroid dysfunction, you
Speaker:will not get high testosterone.
Speaker:Like you need your
Speaker:thyroid to be optimized.
Speaker:So there's these other glands and organs
Speaker:that we have that are absolutely critical
Speaker:for ensuring that testosterone is allowed
Speaker:to do the job that it needs to.
Speaker:Because if if if those other areas are
Speaker:not functioning properly, then there's
Speaker:huge downstream consequences.
Speaker:I think when you work with someone more
Speaker:functional or
Speaker:integrative, they understand that.
Speaker:Whereas in the conventional space, it's
Speaker:not not all of them, but some of them
Speaker:tend to be very myopic with regards to
Speaker:like you have low T and therefore you
Speaker:need to need to correct that with an
Speaker:injectable or pellet, whatever it might
Speaker:be without kind of
Speaker:asking, well, why is it low?
Speaker:So, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:no, it's it's modern
Speaker:medicine is very siloed.
Speaker:And I mean, everybody's made this point
Speaker:on every podcast going.
Speaker:But yeah, if you if you break an arm,
Speaker:you're going to any
Speaker:there's no question about that.
Speaker:But yeah, if you've got a functional
Speaker:metabolic disease, you're almost better
Speaker:off trying to sort it out yourself
Speaker:because the system as it stands is not
Speaker:catered to support that that type of
Speaker:dysfunction within the body.
Speaker:Yeah, you yeah, before we get off topic
Speaker:again, I want to come back to the
Speaker:discussion a little bit later on.
Speaker:But before yeah, before we go completely
Speaker:off topic, I'd love to get
Speaker:your thoughts on TRT as a whole.
Speaker:Now, obviously, it has its place.
Speaker:But it's often seen as a sort of a first
Speaker:line treatment option for any young man
Speaker:or old man for that or
Speaker:anyone that's ageism, isn't it?
Speaker:I can't say that.
Speaker:For anyone who presents as hypogonado or
Speaker:with symptoms of low T.
Speaker:But yeah, what are your
Speaker:thoughts on TRT as a whole?
Speaker:Yeah, I think TRT is exploding right now.
Speaker:And I think it's part of it's part of a
Speaker:greater symptom of this convenience
Speaker:culture where, like with anything you
Speaker:tend to when you start something you tend
Speaker:to there's a bias towards searching for the benefits for the good things about it.
Speaker:And you don't tend to search about the
Speaker:negatives or the side effects.
Speaker:And that, you know, I'm guilty of that.
Speaker:I've done that in the past.
Speaker:I think, you know, we do that.
Speaker:But yeah, whether it supplements, you
Speaker:know, you always ask what's the benefits
Speaker:of this, you never you never
Speaker:ask what's the side effects.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I think with TRT, I do
Speaker:think there's a place for it.
Speaker:And I do think if you have pathological
Speaker:hypogonadism, where there is genuine
Speaker:dysfunction, then then fine, like I think
Speaker:that makes that makes perfect that
Speaker:there's a reasonable case to be made,
Speaker:where even if you were to do lifestyle
Speaker:tweaks or adjustments or changes,
Speaker:and that didn't work, then I think the
Speaker:case for TRT is compelling.
Speaker:But I, I at the moment,
Speaker:I think too many men
Speaker:and a lot of the culture,
Speaker:or too many men want
Speaker:that instant gratification.
Speaker:And I think the it's very easy to just
Speaker:associate, okay, well, I have these symptoms of low T.
Speaker:And therefore,
Speaker:I'll just get injectable or appellate or
Speaker:topical, whatever it is that the
Speaker:anabargels or whatever it might be.
Speaker:And it's a very,
Speaker:you know, rather than doing that, the
Speaker:hard thing of lifestyle change, i.e.
Speaker:changing what you're eating or your
Speaker:habits, you know, the TRT presents, it's
Speaker:almost like, you know, with pills going
Speaker:to a pharmacy, it's
Speaker:the same kind of concept.
Speaker:It's like, well,
Speaker:it's the kind of it's the easy way to rectify something that's nine times out
Speaker:of 10, it's going to be solved through
Speaker:something that you're doing that's not
Speaker:conducive to high testosterone.
Speaker:And I know that's a hard thing to
Speaker:comprehend, because we don't like to look
Speaker:at ourselves in the mirror and be like,
Speaker:ah, it's me, we know, we don't want to
Speaker:take responsibility, we kind of want to
Speaker:outsource and point fingers and blame
Speaker:others and say, well, it's not me, it's
Speaker:something else that's happening.
Speaker:And actually, in my humble experience,
Speaker:nine times out of 10, it is
Speaker:something that we're doing.
Speaker:And it can be innocent, you know, it's not our fault. It's not as if we're
Speaker:intentionally trying to harm ourselves.
Speaker:You know, it's we're all we're all doing
Speaker:the best with what we
Speaker:know and what we can.
Speaker:But I, I do think a lot of men overlook
Speaker:just how easy it is to feel better just
Speaker:literally by changing what
Speaker:you eat quite, quite literally.
Speaker:I see that all the time.
Speaker:Yeah, no, again, very sage words.
Speaker:And I think what's also important to
Speaker:realize is that quite often, if you have
Speaker:an underlying issue,
Speaker:as you mentioned earlier, maybe some sort
Speaker:of disposable underlying infection or
Speaker:high amount of toxic exposure that's then
Speaker:caused that that low T further
Speaker:downstream, then replacing this
Speaker:testosterone may not actually give you
Speaker:the results that you're after, because
Speaker:you're still not dealing with the
Speaker:underlying condition, you're just dealing
Speaker:with the symptoms thereof.
Speaker:So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's still, it's still, it's still, it's still, it's
Speaker:still it's, it's still, it's a bit of a
Speaker:double edged sword, but I still think
Speaker:anyone who, even if they have a
Speaker:compelling reason to use TRT should still
Speaker:look at treating the underlying
Speaker:dysfunction as well.
Speaker:It's, as you said yourself,
Speaker:it's just so multi factorial.
Speaker:Just another question off there, have you
Speaker:ever worked with guys who've tried to
Speaker:come off TRT or who are Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And it depends is again, it's nuanced.
Speaker:Like, I think it depends how long you've
Speaker:been on it, what you've been using, like
Speaker:HCG, there's some like, whether like a
Speaker:lot of the guys, it's not always TRT and
Speaker:there's other, there's
Speaker:other factors as well.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And so, depending on the image rule, I
Speaker:think there's
Speaker:different ways to approach it.
Speaker:But it's, it is, it is definitely doable.
Speaker:And you can definitely restore, you know,
Speaker:a lot of people say, oh, what you lose,
Speaker:you know, you tank your fertility, you
Speaker:lose your testicular
Speaker:function, all the rest of it.
Speaker:And those definitely are side effects and
Speaker:something to be mindful of, but you using
Speaker:the right working with the right person
Speaker:and getting the right advice, you can
Speaker:rectify it and get that and restore
Speaker:natural function, but it
Speaker:is definitely delicate.
Speaker:It's definitely a delicate one.
Speaker:Yeah, no, it's, yeah, you're right.
Speaker:And I think what most people don't
Speaker:realize is that you don't just come off
Speaker:TRT and then sort of instantly
Speaker:reestablish a baseline, baseline
Speaker:functionality, you're almost at a deficit
Speaker:now where you, where you're not
Speaker:necessarily just trying to correct low
Speaker:levels, you're trying
Speaker:to jumpstart the system.
Speaker:And then you're, you start to look, you
Speaker:got to look at various compounds, maybe
Speaker:pharmaceuticals that help
Speaker:to essentially get that,
Speaker:that, that neurology almost back online.
Speaker:Simo, I'd like to
Speaker:backtrack slightly if that's okay.
Speaker:And maybe chat about some of the
Speaker:underlying physiology.
Speaker:I know, I know it can
Speaker:be a bit denser subject.
Speaker:So if you were to help myself in the
Speaker:audience understand how testosterone is
Speaker:produced in the body, I think it would
Speaker:set the tone for the
Speaker:rest of the conversation.
Speaker:Now, obviously, we don't have to go into
Speaker:the sorts of the depths of star protein
Speaker:expression and cholesterol transport.
Speaker:But yeah, at high level, how does this
Speaker:thing that is sort of commonly called the
Speaker:hypothalamic gonadal axis operate?
Speaker:And how does that then lead on to the
Speaker:production of testosterone?
Speaker:Yeah, so you've got, there's a delicate
Speaker:process with luteinizing hormone, LH, and
Speaker:follicle stimulating hormone, FSH.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And they act like they're almost a good
Speaker:way to think about it is they are
Speaker:produced from the HbH
Speaker:axis in the, in your brain.
Speaker:And they, they, it's like pedals on a
Speaker:car, like accelerate and brake.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And what they do is they then the signals
Speaker:then come down to the brains and
Speaker:testicles, you've got the lady cells and
Speaker:the satorine cells, okay.
Speaker:And that's, there's a dynamic or there's
Speaker:a dynamic that goes on there that helps
Speaker:then produce testosterone, which is the
Speaker:derivative of cholesterol.
Speaker:And that's, that's an interesting point
Speaker:we can, we can, we can touch on.
Speaker:But, and depending on your, the health of
Speaker:the LH and the FSH function, and also, I
Speaker:mean, five alpha reductase comes into
Speaker:this as well at some point, which I think
Speaker:is another interesting point
Speaker:that we can, we can touch on.
Speaker:But yeah, those, those
Speaker:pedals, you want working properly.
Speaker:And so, because if they're working
Speaker:properly, that whole system with dynamic
Speaker:with the brain and the testicles in order
Speaker:to produce testosterone, which goes in,
Speaker:which is derived from cholesterol, then
Speaker:you've got a pregnenolone, and then in
Speaker:pregnenolone, you've got DHEA, and then
Speaker:you've got downstream
Speaker:of that, you then got T.
Speaker:And so, assuming that system works, you
Speaker:know, everything's done,
Speaker:is everything's done fine.
Speaker:But you can, you know, a good marker,
Speaker:whether it's primary or secondary
Speaker:hypogonadism, hypogonadism can come into
Speaker:your levels of, you know, whether you've
Speaker:got low, very low levels of FSH or LH or
Speaker:very high levels of FSH or LH.
Speaker:So, the FSH and LH is
Speaker:definitely critical.
Speaker:Like, if anyone's looking to get markers
Speaker:done, like, they're
Speaker:definitely a key component.
Speaker:But like you said at the start, before we
Speaker:went online, like, the
Speaker:SHPG is key, albumin is key,
Speaker:like some of the binding proteins, and
Speaker:then, you know, free T, I think is very
Speaker:underrated, people tend to focus on total
Speaker:T, and then yeah, your, your DHEA,
Speaker:sulfate and pregnant alone.
Speaker:So anyway, there's, there's,
Speaker:there's, how would you call it?
Speaker:There's, there's
Speaker:components within that chain.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And it's very delicate.
Speaker:So that's why you've, when you're going
Speaker:to approach something like overcoming low
Speaker:T, it's what you need to work with
Speaker:someone that understands all of these
Speaker:different components, so that you're not
Speaker:kind of jumping to something whereby it
Speaker:may be easily resolvable through some of
Speaker:these other components that
Speaker:may not be working properly.
Speaker:Yeah, I think when someone's struggling,
Speaker:they take, they tend to take a very
Speaker:reductionist view of things and they, and
Speaker:they look for that one solution that's
Speaker:been marketed to them as, as being the,
Speaker:the one-stop fixall.
Speaker:And, and yeah, I mean, obviously, the
Speaker:world is on a bell-shaped curve.
Speaker:So for some people, that might work, but
Speaker:for the majority people, as you've just
Speaker:alluded to, they need a more
Speaker:comprehensive approach.
Speaker:Thank you for that.
Speaker:You actually almost answered my next
Speaker:question, which was to now differentiate
Speaker:the, the difference between, between
Speaker:primary and secondary hypergonadism,
Speaker:because yeah, I think, sorry, that's,
Speaker:that's important to realize, because
Speaker:depending on which one you have, you may
Speaker:be then better off maybe going down the
Speaker:TRT route to begin with.
Speaker:But yeah, I'd love it if you could just
Speaker:break down those concepts for us.
Speaker:And yeah, for sure.
Speaker:And I think the easy way to decide for
Speaker:this is primary hypergonadism, gonadism,
Speaker:is, whereas it pertains
Speaker:to tessel slip dysfunction.
Speaker:So what, what, what, what we're talking
Speaker:about there is like the majority of
Speaker:tessel serine in men is
Speaker:produced in the ladyx cells.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:It's like, it counts for about 95% of
Speaker:circulating tessel serine.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Whereas, and so if you have, if you have
Speaker:dysfunction in the ladyx cells, and to
Speaker:some degree, this is
Speaker:totally cells, that's
Speaker:through that can be from environmental
Speaker:toxins, there's a myriad of things that
Speaker:can, that can get in the way there, then
Speaker:that's what we, that's what we define as
Speaker:primary hypergonadism.
Speaker:But secondary, what you have
Speaker:is positive with the brain.
Speaker:So there's a, there's a, there's a
Speaker:feedback loop that is where you have the,
Speaker:the hypothalamus, okay, it releases
Speaker:something called gonadotropin.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And what happens there is you have the,
Speaker:there's a dynamic with the, the
Speaker:hypothalamus and the gonadotropin, the
Speaker:pituitary, and you have key hormones,
Speaker:luteinizing hormone and follicle,
Speaker:follicle stimulating hormone.
Speaker:And what happens is the luteinizing
Speaker:hormone signals to the ladyx cells in the
Speaker:testes to start producing tessel serine.
Speaker:Like I, like I mentioned, I think
Speaker:offline, like you have this, I like to
Speaker:call it this kind of, this kind of pedal
Speaker:dynamic, like you have in a car, like
Speaker:this accelerator and
Speaker:this stop-start dynamic.
Speaker:And assuming LH function and FSH, FSH
Speaker:function are optimized and working well
Speaker:and being secreted in the right way,
Speaker:you'll be able to then produce tessel
Speaker:serine in the right way.
Speaker:But sometimes there is factors that come
Speaker:into impeding that function, that dynamic
Speaker:in the brain that can sometimes inhibit
Speaker:LH and FSH function, or sometimes the
Speaker:accelerator goes too high and equally
Speaker:that can be, that can have negative
Speaker:downstream consequences as well.
Speaker:So, so primary, think testicles, balls,
Speaker:think ladyx cells, okay, secondary, think
Speaker:brain, okay, and the signals with the FSH
Speaker:and LH that is coming from the pituitary
Speaker:gland and the hypothalamus.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I think that's, that's, again,
Speaker:sound advice and will definitely help.
Speaker:The last bit of physiology I'd sort of
Speaker:like to touch on is this idea of SHBG.
Speaker:Now this is what's called a glycoprotein
Speaker:and it's often overlooked.
Speaker:Men will go straight to get a
Speaker:testosterone check from somewhere like
Speaker:MediCheck or wherever, they get one
Speaker:online and or just give them this one-off
Speaker:reading of testosterone, which obviously
Speaker:provides you with some
Speaker:level of information,
Speaker:but it's also, also a little,
Speaker:not disconcerting, what's the word, it
Speaker:doesn't tell you the whole picture
Speaker:because there's this
Speaker:idea of free testosterone.
Speaker:So could you sort of enlighten us as to
Speaker:the difference between as to what SHBG is
Speaker:and why it's important?
Speaker:Yeah, so SHBG plays a significant role in
Speaker:regulating testosterone.
Speaker:It's a protein produced primarily in the
Speaker:liver that binds to sex hormones,
Speaker:including testosterone in the
Speaker:bloodstream, okay, and what you have is
Speaker:it combined, it can bind very tightly to
Speaker:testosterone and other hormones like for
Speaker:instance like estrogen and different like
Speaker:estrogen metabolites,
Speaker:making it biologically inactive while
Speaker:bound, but only the unbound or like the
Speaker:free T, the free testosterone, is
Speaker:available to enter the cells and exert
Speaker:its effects on tissues such as you know
Speaker:promoting muscle growth, libido and other
Speaker:like antigenic functions.
Speaker:So what you'll find is if you have high
Speaker:SHBG, more testosterone gets bound,
Speaker:reducing the free T.
Speaker:So like you'll find that this can like,
Speaker:it's very typical that if someone has
Speaker:high SHBG, they'll have like decreased
Speaker:energy, libido, even muscle mass,
Speaker:and the total T can actually appear to be
Speaker:normal in that case, but if you have low
Speaker:SHBG and more
Speaker:testosterone remains unbound.
Speaker:So what can then happen is it can then
Speaker:free up, you get increasing free
Speaker:testosterone and then this can amplify
Speaker:testosterone's effects and that's the
Speaker:part that you're able then to get the
Speaker:effects like associated with high
Speaker:testosterone because the free T marker
Speaker:really is more synonymous with a more
Speaker:credible marker of what's actually
Speaker:biologically active that your body can
Speaker:actually utilize and do something with.
Speaker:So there's definitely factors like
Speaker:affecting SHBG levels like for instance
Speaker:like this you know like estrogen can
Speaker:increase SHBG like health conditions like
Speaker:liver because it comes from the liver
Speaker:like if you've got liver dysfunction that
Speaker:can play into it like thyroid is a huge
Speaker:aspect in that as well and like as we've
Speaker:mentioned already like lifestyle is key
Speaker:so there's definitely like yeah there's
Speaker:definitely a myriad of aspects again it
Speaker:is quite complex but I do think you know
Speaker:like we discussed offline like it's an
Speaker:underrated aspect that feeds into the
Speaker:testosterone realm that I think a lot of
Speaker:people tend to overlook and the same with
Speaker:albumin as well to some degree.
Speaker:Yeah no these carrier proteins are
Speaker:definitely important and they are also
Speaker:they're also modulated as you mentioned
Speaker:by things like diet and various other
Speaker:factors stress is another big one.
Speaker:And I think it's also important excuse me
Speaker:to sort of note that SHBG can be too low
Speaker:as well and then you can which is a point
Speaker:you were making earlier excuse me
Speaker:regarding thalvatifoloreductase if you
Speaker:then have again as you know too much free
Speaker:testosterone that can then 5-alfrode use
Speaker:into excess DHT which is can also be a
Speaker:problem well not only for its
Speaker:associations with hair loss but there's
Speaker:also some evidence evidence and I mean
Speaker:this goes backwards and forwards between
Speaker:estrogen DHT and estrogen but there are
Speaker:potentially some issues there with the
Speaker:prostate as well so point being is that
Speaker:you want to have SHBG as I'm sure you'll
Speaker:agree and that sort of that happy zone
Speaker:not too low and not too high so yeah it's
Speaker:something that I think
Speaker:guys just generally need to be aware of
Speaker:when trying to optimize their levels and
Speaker:again why it's imperative to work with
Speaker:someone like yourself when sort of
Speaker:working their way through this with this
Speaker:journey of low T but yeah
Speaker:okay so I think we've covered
Speaker:we've got a pretty good baseline now of
Speaker:of what testosterone is
Speaker:how it's produced in the body
Speaker:I'd love to pivot into your system though
Speaker:I don't expect you to give away all your
Speaker:IP but at a high level would you just
Speaker:mind us running through how you work with
Speaker:people and then maybe an anonymous case
Speaker:study just provide a practical example of
Speaker:if that would be all right
Speaker:just yeah for sure absolutely so what I
Speaker:would say is that most men that come to
Speaker:me and they are if I kind of set the
Speaker:scene for like a context that that I do
Speaker:very well or I excel in is where they
Speaker:come to me where they're ambitious kind
Speaker:of type a type guys and they find that
Speaker:despite wanting to put the their kind of
Speaker:proverbial foot on the accelerator
Speaker:they're not able to get the response they
Speaker:want they feel like they're dragging
Speaker:themselves the drive isn't there as it
Speaker:used to they're just not as sharp as they
Speaker:used to be the conviction isn't there and
Speaker:they've got this excess weight and
Speaker:they've tried different things and they
Speaker:can't seem to figure out how to get a
Speaker:sustainable result okay so the excess
Speaker:weight is there the energy is erratic
Speaker:they get a morning burst afternoon they
Speaker:start to fight they rely on cultures like
Speaker:caffeine same in the evening like you
Speaker:know they get back lie on the sofa they
Speaker:just kind of zonked out and their
Speaker:intimacy sex drive just isn't what it
Speaker:used to be like it's something that
Speaker:they'll that they will engage in but they
Speaker:just the the appetite is gone so that's
Speaker:like a typical symptomology of what I
Speaker:tend to find and what I do in terms of
Speaker:the method is it's usually over three
Speaker:months in the first month we focus on
Speaker:nutrition and really like I I would say
Speaker:80% of guys I work with tend to have some
Speaker:form of gut pathology going on where they
Speaker:have whether it's constipation bloating
Speaker:diarrhea I don't know they seem they have
Speaker:normalized some gut symptoms and I do
Speaker:think gut health is probably the most
Speaker:underrated aspect of testosterone
Speaker:optimization and I think hormone
Speaker:optimization generally I do think people
Speaker:tend to just associate kind of gas and
Speaker:some of these gut symptoms is kind of
Speaker:normal and that they don't need closer
Speaker:inspection and I find when you when you
Speaker:put when I put guys on a on a on a on a
Speaker:on a protocol yeah and when they start to
Speaker:go to the bathroom more regularly and
Speaker:their stalls are more normal they tend to
Speaker:that is directly correlated with how they
Speaker:feel you know they tend to feel better
Speaker:they tend to have more energy they tend
Speaker:to feel more confident in themselves so
Speaker:what we do is I have a bias towards
Speaker:making sure the guts in a happy place and
Speaker:then we make sure that they're eating in
Speaker:the right way so I a lot of these men
Speaker:come to me from an intimate and fasting
Speaker:background and I think this is an
Speaker:interesting point and not not to digress
Speaker:but a lot of them tend to eat a big lunch
Speaker:and dinner and they forego a breakfast
Speaker:and I find that when we reverse that and
Speaker:we do a big breakfast and a big lunch and
Speaker:we forego dinner they see a radical
Speaker:improvement in their subjective state so
Speaker:which I know kind of contradicts a lot of
Speaker:kind of the a lot of the holistic health
Speaker:space is dominated with kind of fasting
Speaker:is this kind of panacea and I think I
Speaker:definitely think in some cases depending
Speaker:on what issue you have I definitely think
Speaker:there's I definitely think that's huge
Speaker:utility but I think there's nuance to it
Speaker:that is often forgotten around like if
Speaker:you're if you're nutrient density if your
Speaker:stress levels are not in check and the
Speaker:nutrient density of the food that you're
Speaker:eating isn't high enough then you're
Speaker:probably gonna you're gonna be
Speaker:undernourished and that will start to in
Speaker:some way I don't know break is the right
Speaker:word but you'll start to deteriorate and
Speaker:I do think a lot of people just think
Speaker:that oh well if I shorten my window I'm
Speaker:gonna be healthier it's like well no
Speaker:that's that's very black and white and
Speaker:we've missed a whole there's some found
Speaker:key foundations within that within that
Speaker:hypothesis that you're that you're
Speaker:overlooking and I'm now seeing it
Speaker:observationally with clients like every
Speaker:single one that shifts to breakfast and
Speaker:lunch not lunch and dinner sees radical
Speaker:improvements in their sex drive energy
Speaker:clarity all the rest of it so I
Speaker:definitely think that's a I definitely
Speaker:think that that's one of the points that
Speaker:I mentioned I think throws the most
Speaker:people just because of a lot of the
Speaker:holistic health rhetoric that seems to
Speaker:dominate you know intermittent fasting
Speaker:being this kind of you
Speaker:know amazing panacea yeah
Speaker:yeah no again I couldn't agree more and I
Speaker:think intermittent fasting definitely has
Speaker:its place and but when you sort of skip
Speaker:breakfast in in perpetuity uh in my
Speaker:understanding what happens is that you
Speaker:sort of you create this this dissociation
Speaker:between your your normal circadian
Speaker:biology and your ability to produce
Speaker:hormones because I think what most so
Speaker:many men miss is that the bulk of
Speaker:testosterone production often often not
Speaker:all the time sort of happens in the
Speaker:morning so when you sort of lose that uh
Speaker:that that zeitgeist as it's called that
Speaker:circadian cue that uh that basically
Speaker:tells your body to to wake up you're then
Speaker:losing a lot of that hormonal signaling
Speaker:that occurs and and and and that's the
Speaker:fact that you've picked up that up is
Speaker:incredible and I think sort of shifting
Speaker:that schedule around is is genius so
Speaker:congratulations that's that's that's a
Speaker:great catch cool so I'd love it if we
Speaker:could maybe just chat about some
Speaker:supplements quickly now I know these are
Speaker:thoughts of word uh they're hit and miss
Speaker:some of them have some value um and
Speaker:ultimately I think the things that move
Speaker:the needle are are going to be yeah your
Speaker:dietary precursors and and things that
Speaker:support testosterone production zinc
Speaker:magnesium etc but beyond that though that
Speaker:there are a few that that keep on sort of
Speaker:crawling crawling out the woodwork things
Speaker:like boron tom garelli for dogeo gristers
Speaker:um would you mind if we just ran through
Speaker:these a few of this quickly and just
Speaker:provides your your your thoughts on them
Speaker:like perfect thank you
Speaker:okay so first one first boron
Speaker:I'm not you know what I'm I'm a I'm a fan
Speaker:of natural derived boron I'm I'm not a
Speaker:fan of synthetic derived boron um uh I
Speaker:there is clear efficacy for boron having
Speaker:a good effect on 3d levels I've you know
Speaker:I I can that's kind of irrefutable but um
Speaker:I'm very skeptical generally increasingly
Speaker:and this is kind of more this is more of
Speaker:a recent change that I've made up upon in
Speaker:light of new research about just
Speaker:synthetic supplements generally um I'm
Speaker:increasingly hesitant anyway I can come
Speaker:on to that at the end but we could I
Speaker:don't I don't want to digress too much
Speaker:but I definitely think um yeah boron has
Speaker:its place but you know getting it from
Speaker:things like raisins and natural sources
Speaker:will will do you better and I don't I
Speaker:think a lot of men place a lot of
Speaker:emphasis on it as again there's panacea
Speaker:at the expense of right well let's focus
Speaker:on some of the nutrition fundamentals and
Speaker:then we'll layer on top um so and then
Speaker:you've got with boron you've got is it um
Speaker:you've got borax you've got um you've got
Speaker:uh I think what's it called boron
Speaker:glistenate you've got different types of
Speaker:boron and they have different efficacies
Speaker:you know in terms of the form that you
Speaker:buy so when you get the supplement itself
Speaker:you know it's like with magnesium you've
Speaker:got citrate carbonate sulfate and they've
Speaker:all they've all they all the body
Speaker:responds in different ways depending on
Speaker:the form and boron's the same so it's
Speaker:important if you're going to do it that
Speaker:you get the right type
Speaker:perfect answer thank you uh next one
Speaker:which is to all the rage is tongue gatali
Speaker:yeah tongue gat well it is because of
Speaker:huberman you know anything that huberman
Speaker:says everyone kind of uh bows down to is
Speaker:this kind of he's kind of the overlord um
Speaker:which is which is interesting but um so
Speaker:tongue cat again it clearly has efficacy
Speaker:and I think um and I don't think that's I
Speaker:think that's undeniable but I'm skeptical
Speaker:I know anecdotally a lot of men that had
Speaker:huge digestive issues with with tongue
Speaker:cat and again I know with tongue cat um
Speaker:and um the sourcing of it depending a lot
Speaker:of tongue cat is is um is from asia and
Speaker:uh the regulations on like for instance
Speaker:when you're looking at herbs you're then
Speaker:looking at like heavy metals and um which
Speaker:which are definitely uh an underrated
Speaker:component in in under in evaluating
Speaker:whether whether to take it but I I think
Speaker:if you can source good stuff that is
Speaker:certified certified clean of heavy metals
Speaker:and substances that shouldn't be there
Speaker:and they and they do exist I think it's
Speaker:worth experimenting with at lower doses
Speaker:and then I always recommend like titrate
Speaker:up never start high and because you're
Speaker:gonna there's a high risk but um I don't
Speaker:think there's a place for it but I think
Speaker:again a lot of the negatives and side
Speaker:effects from anac that I've seen
Speaker:anecdotally tend to be um tend to be
Speaker:overlooked and I think it's I think
Speaker:there's a lot of hype there I think
Speaker:there's a lot of hype but I would say the
Speaker:same thing you probably might yeah you
Speaker:might mention fidosia I say the same
Speaker:thing about fidosia again like I think
Speaker:there's there is some good studies
Speaker:showing efficacy but I'm skeptical um
Speaker:like because a lot of it's done in animal
Speaker:models with tomcat it's human I think
Speaker:they've done some human randomized
Speaker:control trials but in fidosia I think
Speaker:that it's it's mainly animal models which
Speaker:again like animal models give us a good
Speaker:indicator they're not they're not
Speaker:completely not you know they're not all
Speaker:bad but we need more human models I think
Speaker:really to understand is it you know is it
Speaker:this really powerful substances that more
Speaker:men should take or should more men just
Speaker:eat more eggs meat um and these other
Speaker:kind of very easy things that you can get
Speaker:at your supermarket that I
Speaker:think are are way more powerful
Speaker:yeah definitely.
Speaker:Tonka is an interesting one it seems to
Speaker:act as an L.H. agonist um and sort of in
Speaker:that way I suppose work in a similar
Speaker:fashion to say it may be something like
Speaker:hcg but yeah I mean you also can then a
Speaker:lot of guys can completely crush their
Speaker:shgb on shpg on on tonkats so yeah it's
Speaker:uh it's it's something as you mentioned
Speaker:you want to titrate out if you're going
Speaker:to use it of course um cool uh let's
Speaker:stick let's just stick to one more uh
Speaker:something that's definitely well known
Speaker:and that's ashwagandha
Speaker:yeah ashwagandha is I know it's a very
Speaker:popular one isn't it I think a lot of
Speaker:people take it um for like stress
Speaker:mitigation as well and I do it's now made
Speaker:its way into the testosterone circle and
Speaker:I'm you know I'm I'm definitely on the
Speaker:spectrum of I'm very uh skeptical of
Speaker:ashwagandha and I don't like it I never
Speaker:recommend it and because I find it can it
Speaker:can create this emotional numbing called
Speaker:um I never get the word right it's called
Speaker:anhedonia anhedonia that's it yeah and
Speaker:there's a lot of cases of men that get
Speaker:it's almost like anhedonia is a is like
Speaker:um serotonin syndrome where you become I
Speaker:mean I've had it myself because I went
Speaker:six seven years ago I took
Speaker:antidepressants and um and it it really
Speaker:messes with your ability to think clearly
Speaker:to feel driven to um to feel sharp so
Speaker:again I think there's some men that
Speaker:clearly take it and and feel good and
Speaker:there's benefits but I'm anything in my
Speaker:mind that raises serotonin to levels that
Speaker:ashwagandha does I don't think is
Speaker:inherently a good thing and I do think
Speaker:without going down a tangent I think
Speaker:serotonin itself is an interesting rabbit
Speaker:hole just because I think a lot of people
Speaker:just associate serotonin with being
Speaker:inherently good like you want lots of it
Speaker:and actually that you want some but you
Speaker:don't want to you don't want to overcook
Speaker:it like anything
Speaker:because it can create problems
Speaker:yeah it's another interesting point is
Speaker:the fact that ashwagandha also can to
Speaker:some degree inhibit 5 AR expression again
Speaker:yes so um that that whole rabbit hole and
Speaker:I'm sure we could have the finasteride
Speaker:discussion as well yes um but yeah uh
Speaker:definitely these compounds are best
Speaker:utilized under the guys guide guys one of
Speaker:the words one of those words of someone
Speaker:who knows what they're doing um cool so I
Speaker:don't think we can really have the
Speaker:supplement discussion without having the
Speaker:diet discussion um I know we sort of uh
Speaker:picked around this topic a few times
Speaker:already um but what are your views on
Speaker:diet now I know there's a uh sorry just
Speaker:to complete that there's a lot there and
Speaker:uh there's a lot there are a lot of
Speaker:people in the carnival keto side space
Speaker:and then conversely on the other end of
Speaker:the spectrum you've got your vegans and
Speaker:bruterians um and I think most of these
Speaker:diets have utility at the for the right
Speaker:person at the right time yeah um but yeah
Speaker:broadly speaking uh from a well an
Speaker:optimization standpoint and then just a a
Speaker:point of of just just life in general
Speaker:what are your views on diet
Speaker:when it comes to this area
Speaker:yeah so I would say I've tried most diets
Speaker:I've done vegan pescatarian carnival keto
Speaker:uh I've done a lot of them and uh yeah
Speaker:I've been deep you know carnivate steak
Speaker:and eggs for like seven months which is
Speaker:wild um and I do so I do think the best
Speaker:diet is the one that's best for you and I
Speaker:think a lot of people a lot of people say
Speaker:well how do I know that's right for me or
Speaker:how do I know it's best for me and I
Speaker:understand that and what I would say is
Speaker:depending on where I'm a bit different is
Speaker:I think the main the main fundamental
Speaker:template needs to needs to orientate
Speaker:around animal foods because they're the
Speaker:most nutrient dense um in terms of the
Speaker:amount of your exposure to bioavailable
Speaker:nutrients in terms of um nutrients the
Speaker:body can actually utilize and do things
Speaker:with effectively animal foods are
Speaker:infinitely greater than plant foods but
Speaker:what I would say is um I see animal foods
Speaker:as builders and I see plant foods as like
Speaker:cleansers so I'm not like you know I'm
Speaker:not like a carnival that things plant
Speaker:foods are these kind of evil demons I you
Speaker:need you need vegetables because fiber's
Speaker:great insoluble fiber's great for getting
Speaker:rid of toxins and things in your gut
Speaker:shouldn't be there you know fruit I think
Speaker:is phenomenal I think it gets wrongly
Speaker:demonized um uh you know it's a fantastic
Speaker:source of all sorts of nutrients so but
Speaker:where I'm where I may be different to
Speaker:most people is depending on your latitude
Speaker:I think determines on whether you go
Speaker:higher carb or lower carbs what I mean by
Speaker:that is like you know if you're in
Speaker:Iceland for just as an extreme example
Speaker:like a more ketogenic template is going
Speaker:to be more favorable as opposed to if you
Speaker:live on the equator and you've got lots
Speaker:of sun um then naturally your your access
Speaker:to fat is going to be a lot less like I'm
Speaker:in Colombia right now and trying to find
Speaker:fatty meat's really difficult trying to
Speaker:find anything fatty is difficult because
Speaker:it's a warm country so I think the nuance
Speaker:that is missed is like where you are and
Speaker:to some degree your genetic makeup you
Speaker:know um and so what I recommend what I
Speaker:recommend to most people is don't be
Speaker:dogmatic don't don't because once you
Speaker:find that you're in a carnival community
Speaker:or a keto community like that's you're
Speaker:then part of a cult okay and so what I
Speaker:recommend is ever I think all of these
Speaker:communities have good things and bad
Speaker:things and I think it's wise to
Speaker:experiment and be intentional about how
Speaker:to experiment and then see and see how
Speaker:you react like if you do a more
Speaker:meat-based diet um make some subjective
Speaker:markers like your energy your sleep and
Speaker:then track that for a couple of weeks and
Speaker:then maybe go more plant based and see
Speaker:how you how you find it and I think by
Speaker:doing that you'll then become more aware
Speaker:of what you're eating and naturally
Speaker:you'll start to find what what your
Speaker:version is um so yeah I
Speaker:guess that's what I would say
Speaker:yeah sort of a very Jack Cruz come Paul
Speaker:Saladino take on it I love characters
Speaker:yeah no well I mean I do until I try and
Speaker:start and try until I start trying to
Speaker:listen to what he's talking about I know
Speaker:it's funny it's sort of I understand the
Speaker:biology uh my background is in biochem so
Speaker:I get that aspect of it but when we start
Speaker:going to the physics
Speaker:robot homes yeah okay
Speaker:he doesn't want to dumb it down he is
Speaker:insistent and not wanting to dumb it down
Speaker:yeah no it's definitely okay so right I'm
Speaker:gonna re-listen to that five times and
Speaker:then I'm worth it some of it I think he's
Speaker:he's just down the road from you well
Speaker:he's in El Salvador yeah he's in El
Speaker:Salvador yeah so yeah he he's a character
Speaker:of note uh on that's for
Speaker:sure my my actual claim to fame is I
Speaker:lived with Paul Saladino for three months
Speaker:in Costa Rica I did you
Speaker:yeah three years ago yeah okay
Speaker:that that's an interesting one yeah I
Speaker:know I emailed Paul our ones just
Speaker:regarding uh working with him and at that
Speaker:point he was charging $1,200 an hour so
Speaker:that was about three or four years ago as
Speaker:well so yeah how times have changed but
Speaker:um yeah I think you emailed him now you'd
Speaker:be lucky if lucky if his receptionist
Speaker:replied yeah um but yeah anyway that's uh
Speaker:it's strange how the world works anyway
Speaker:moving on so yeah I think we've covered a
Speaker:lot today and um really what I'd sort of
Speaker:like to talk about next I think are your
Speaker:views on on biohacking um now I hate the
Speaker:term with with the passion but it's what
Speaker:the industry's adopted so we kind of got
Speaker:to stick with it to some extent anyway um
Speaker:but yeah what are your thoughts on the on
Speaker:the idea that you can use technology to
Speaker:essentially take shortcuts and sort of
Speaker:support or augment your production with
Speaker:various gizmos and gadgets so
Speaker:you know if you'd asked me this four or
Speaker:five years ago I would have said oh I'm
Speaker:all for it it's great it's amazing um but
Speaker:my view on it now is completely different
Speaker:in the way that I do think a lot of
Speaker:people in health optimization space
Speaker:particularly in the holistic health
Speaker:optimization space they end up being
Speaker:quite neurotic and you end up the
Speaker:biohacking or the pursuit of biohacking
Speaker:in of itself becomes this kind of
Speaker:self-obsessed uh journey that I think can
Speaker:mentally impede you and I think it it can
Speaker:lead to your your optimization kind of
Speaker:forming your entire identity um and so I
Speaker:I think I actually think in order to go
Speaker:forward I'm a believer in like a lot of
Speaker:the best techniques are ancestral like go
Speaker:back you know what I mean like eating a
Speaker:whole food diet like having a sauna um I
Speaker:mean there's a long list but um and I do
Speaker:think biohacking has is is dwarfing or no
Speaker:morphing into this kind of more
Speaker:transhumanistic um abyss whereby um
Speaker:there's just this fierce pursuit to want
Speaker:to find this marginal gain that the shape
Speaker:might not help yeah yeah and and and it's
Speaker:incredibly ambiguous you know whether
Speaker:you've got the sulfurophane in in um what
Speaker:is it in broccoli broccoli sprout yeah
Speaker:yeah all the risk there's the resveratrol
Speaker:in your yeah like and then you know
Speaker:you've got people like David Sinclair who
Speaker:who make I you know I
Speaker:think he has great intentions
Speaker:he's the biggest con artist going
Speaker:I think he is as well yeah I think he is
Speaker:as well I'm glad you said that I'm glad
Speaker:you said that because I he they propagate
Speaker:these things these molecules as if as if
Speaker:they're this panel this cure all to all
Speaker:your problems and it's like it's it's so
Speaker:ambiguous it's so ambiguous and and it
Speaker:just trades the hell out of me to be
Speaker:polite you know um um so I'm glad you
Speaker:said that because I think him and his
Speaker:other names who are they are they are
Speaker:distracting people from just just eat
Speaker:just eat right and be consistent that it
Speaker:move as much as you can get outside um
Speaker:they just do the do the basics and be
Speaker:consistent at them stop stop getting so
Speaker:caught up in these kind of these other um
Speaker:these other things that yeah may or may
Speaker:not work because it just you know it
Speaker:takes you away from the being present
Speaker:from living spending time with family
Speaker:kids like there's just a lot of other
Speaker:things that I think are more meaningful
Speaker:that that will um that will that will
Speaker:feed your soul I think that's what I
Speaker:think that's what I'm gonna get at in
Speaker:summary is a lot of it's quite soulless
Speaker:you know uh and I think yeah
Speaker:yeah no I sort of look at it as sort of
Speaker:technological orthorexia yes
Speaker:that's a better way of putting it yeah
Speaker:and it's it definitely has its place I
Speaker:mean uh things like red light I think can
Speaker:be useful but again if you're not
Speaker:standing in the sunshine or getting some
Speaker:sunshine in daily um there's very little
Speaker:point in spending 2000 pounds in a post
Speaker:red light uh therapy setup if you're not
Speaker:getting in your the rest of the natural
Speaker:light spectrum so yeah yeah again it's
Speaker:it's they're useful tools but they're
Speaker:never going to replace the basics I think
Speaker:through all my sort of experimentation
Speaker:trials tribulations etc I've come with
Speaker:the conclusion that you can't outsmart
Speaker:mother nature you you can definitely try
Speaker:but you will fail miserably um but yeah
Speaker:uh support to the best we'll have to have
Speaker:the uh the conversation about who we
Speaker:don't like uh offline I think we I've
Speaker:just started this but it's it's too early
Speaker:to get cancelled uh right okay
Speaker:so I would also I would also say like I
Speaker:do on one level I understand like we now
Speaker:live in a modern environment surrounded
Speaker:by emfs and all sorts of things that we
Speaker:didn't use to so I do think there's a
Speaker:case to some form of biohacking inverted
Speaker:commas to some degree just because you
Speaker:need modern modern solutions to modern
Speaker:problems but I think yeah
Speaker:it's just the god sorry go on
Speaker:no of course I couldn't agree more and we
Speaker:had I had a conversation with Tristan
Speaker:Scott who I'm sure you're familiar with
Speaker:the real eye computer and we went down
Speaker:the wi-fi rabbit and it's yeah no I'm
Speaker:definitely a believer in the fact that
Speaker:non-atv myth is a problem and as you
Speaker:pointed out we then should sort of hack
Speaker:our environments whether it's with hard
Speaker:wired connections um or not to sort of
Speaker:get around those issues but uh ultimately
Speaker:we should somehow strive to just create
Speaker:an environment where we don't have to
Speaker:deal with those problems to begin with um
Speaker:which is unfortunately easier said than
Speaker:done I mean uh I I have a wi-fi
Speaker:connection running now to have this
Speaker:conversation with you so it's it's
Speaker:definitely finding that a happy middle
Speaker:ground I think which and and then yeah
Speaker:creating solutions as best you can around
Speaker:it um I suppose that is where hacking
Speaker:your environment probably is is a good
Speaker:thing um okay so I know you've probably
Speaker:had just about enough of me by now but uh
Speaker:before we sort of start to uh close up
Speaker:I'd love to ask your your thoughts on
Speaker:testing um and and where you start with
Speaker:this when working with clients
Speaker:yeah so what I do is I a lot of I'm a bit
Speaker:different in the sense of like I alluded
Speaker:to at the start like if someone has low t
Speaker:it's usually in nearly all cases it's not
Speaker:testosterone it's a problem it's it's
Speaker:other it's other things going on in their
Speaker:hormonal apparatus that is that is
Speaker:impacting testosterone so like I alluded
Speaker:to the start about thyroid or gut or
Speaker:liver okay so for example like with
Speaker:testing how that comes into testing is
Speaker:like getting you know TSH like in terms
Speaker:of the thyroid profile getting the
Speaker:relevant markers done in thyroid in terms
Speaker:of liver giving the relevant markers
Speaker:tested within the liver function and the
Speaker:same to some degree gut if we can
Speaker:depending on on the symptoms but I we we
Speaker:establish a hormonal baseline based on
Speaker:like for instance like you've got
Speaker:prolactin you've got you know even what
Speaker:else is involved in their thyroid liver
Speaker:prolactin I mean there's there's there's
Speaker:estrogen yeah exactly exactly um so that
Speaker:there's there's numerous key hormones
Speaker:that depending on the testing will help
Speaker:determine how we then approach things and
Speaker:they give us a really good indicator
Speaker:really solid indicator of like for
Speaker:instance you know you've got thyroid
Speaker:dysfunction well well that's well there's
Speaker:your there's your answer as to why the
Speaker:other two or it's the same with like gut
Speaker:function I mean so it's once you
Speaker:establish that baseline it's then very
Speaker:easy to understand okay cool this is how
Speaker:we need to then tailor the approach to
Speaker:make sure that you're getting that you're
Speaker:getting an individual an individualized
Speaker:um personalized personalized yeah
Speaker:approach that um ensures that it's
Speaker:relevant for you and that you're not
Speaker:being kind of crowbarred into a box and I
Speaker:think that's where and I think testing I
Speaker:absolutely think testing has its place
Speaker:and I but I do think testing isn't as
Speaker:objective as people think it is like
Speaker:you've got you know I believe in saliva
Speaker:testing for cortisol and dha sulfate I
Speaker:think it's more credible than blood
Speaker:testing because you um and so I do think
Speaker:there's some cases to be made for like
Speaker:for instance like if you want to be heavy
Speaker:metals you know doing urine and blood not
Speaker:hair um so again it's it's nuanced um uh
Speaker:I think blood testing has its place but I
Speaker:think along with like I mentioned the
Speaker:examples there and along with your
Speaker:subjective state you know for instance
Speaker:the thyroid taking your temperature in
Speaker:the morning seeing if it's um at the
Speaker:right level your heart rate if you've got
Speaker:you know an extremely low heart rate it's
Speaker:not always favorable that can be
Speaker:indicative of you've got um some maybe
Speaker:some like low old old dusterone or you've
Speaker:got um you know uh thyroid dysfunction so
Speaker:it's yeah it's testing's key it has its
Speaker:it has its place but it definitely has
Speaker:its pitfalls and I definitely think the
Speaker:subjective state can say a lot as well I
Speaker:think um it's it I think it's making sure
Speaker:that you're recognizing all of it so that
Speaker:it's a very holistic picture
Speaker:comprehensive yeah are you doing any
Speaker:specific gut testing sort of organic
Speaker:acids uh GI maps anything like that
Speaker:yeah do you know the GI maps is something
Speaker:that we'll do I think that's a really
Speaker:good one I think that's definitely one of
Speaker:the better ones in the space um so um
Speaker:we'll we'll dig into we'll dig it we'll
Speaker:we'll do that if it's if it's appropriate
Speaker:but I I do find depending on the the
Speaker:extreme how extreme the the symptoms are
Speaker:as it pertains to the gut um in most
Speaker:cases it's it's usually pretty usually
Speaker:pretty resolvable through just making
Speaker:some nutritional and supplement tweaks
Speaker:but if we if for the reason those don't
Speaker:work then we will we will then resort to
Speaker:more comprehensive testing
Speaker:using like you said GI maps
Speaker:yeah I think we're on a similar
Speaker:wavelength there and I think what most
Speaker:people um especially if they're not if
Speaker:drugs aren't their first protocol um fail
Speaker:to realize is that the interventions are
Speaker:largely uh the same uh through uh
Speaker:irrespective of the person so testing
Speaker:doesn't necessarily have to come straight
Speaker:off the bat because you unless you are
Speaker:maybe looking for something specific like
Speaker:a thyroid issue like you mentioned um but
Speaker:when you start to make those necessary uh
Speaker:changes as as within your protocol for
Speaker:example most people will start to sort of
Speaker:universally improve as a result of those
Speaker:of those um processes uh being
Speaker:implemented so I I think testing is great
Speaker:but it doesn't necessarily have to be run
Speaker:initially it can be run as a
Speaker:troubleshooting point further down the
Speaker:line if necessary uh necessitated uh
Speaker:versus yeah as a well we've got to test
Speaker:you at baseline to establish where you
Speaker:are well we know where you are where you
Speaker:are is rubbish so let's improve from
Speaker:there and then track later on
Speaker:yes exactly yeah
Speaker:cool okay I see well I think yeah as I
Speaker:mentioned we've covered a lot so maybe to
Speaker:end off um we could just run through some
Speaker:rapid fire questions and lightning round
Speaker:as it were and uh we can yeah uh call it
Speaker:a day then would that be okay yeah sounds
Speaker:good okay cool brilliant so if you had to
Speaker:choose just one lifestyle change to boost
Speaker:testosterone levels more than the
Speaker:eat more eggs
Speaker:perfect okay what's the most common
Speaker:mistake guys make when trying to increase
Speaker:testosterone levels relying on
Speaker:supplements can women benefit from these
Speaker:same principles yes what's the one over
Speaker:the counter supplement you would turn to
Speaker:if you could pick only one
Speaker:topical magnesium chloride
Speaker:perfect and a controversial one to end up
Speaker:end off with a scrotal
Speaker:sunbathing yay on a sorry
Speaker:yay yay if it's appropriate
Speaker:fair enough yeah um do you know this has
Speaker:been an amazing conversation where can
Speaker:people find you yeah
Speaker:so on twitter I'm just uh simo um that's
Speaker:that's the best place
Speaker:okay brilliant we'll link to uh all your
Speaker:social uh excuse me the socials in the
Speaker:show notes and uh yeah thanks again this
Speaker:has been an amazing conversation
Speaker:yeah thanks for having me Rob it's been
Speaker:great it's been great to chat to you
