#022 Harry Worrow - The Hidden Science of Fascia
vitalityPRO
#022 Harry Worrow - The Hidden Science of Fascia
Harry Worrow is a Biomechanics Specialist & Elite Personal Trainer with 15 years of experience and is dedicated to helping clients achieve their peak physical potential and overall well-being.
Harry’s expertise lies in understanding the body's mechanics to address the root cause of issues.
He specialises in alignment analysis, lower limb and full body assessments, and the crucial connection between the thorax and pelvis. Harry’s goal is to restore full mobility and function through techniques like Myofascial release and targeted corrective exercises for structural and mechanical dysfunction.
Beyond physical training, Harry emphasises a holistic approach, incorporating sustainable nutrition and strategies for mental and emotional well-being into all his programs.
Harry is passionate about helping others reclaim their fitness, no matter the starting point.
> During our discussion, you’ll discover:
(00:03:31) Why the traditional rehab models don't work
(00:09:44) What is postural dysfunction
(00:13:03) Are posture issues a cause of injury
(00:16:57) What is fascia
(00:19:27) What are the triggers for fascia to become dysfunctional
(00:22:07) Techniques to support fascial health
(00:27:53) Do most people stretch too much
(00:31:29) Why is pelvic stability important
(00:35:08) General tips to help people start correcting pelvic tilt
(00:40:27) What should people look for in a practitioner
(00:43:39) How to approach training for an athlete as opposed to a “regular” person
(00:50:58) How to bodybuild using functional fitness
(00:58:11) Rapid fire questions and hot takes for the fitness industry
The vP life Podcast is brought to you by vitalityPRO, a supplement company based in the UK that provides you with the latest in health, anti-ageing and longevity supplementation. What makes vitalityPRO unique is that it third-party tests every product batch for quality, purity, heavy metals and other contaminants. vitalityPRO’s mission is simple: provide you with confidence in the quality and effectiveness of your longevity supplements that focus on restoring your cellular health.
To save on your first order, navigate to the home page and sign up for the newsletter to receive 10% off your first order.
Research Links:
Transcript
Cool, let's go.
2
:All right, Harry, nice to see you again and thank you for joining us on the podcast today.
3
:Seeing as you put me through the ringer once a week, I'm pretty familiar with who you are.
4
:But yeah, I don't suppose the rest of our audience is maybe quite as familiar with you and
what you do.
5
:So maybe if you could just give us a brief rundown of who you are and your story and then
we'll get into the meat and potatoes of today's conversation.
6
:Absolutely, thank you for having me on firstly.
7
:Yeah, I do have the pleasure of training you once a week, is an honour.
8
:So yeah, it's great to be on.
9
:So my name is Harry Warrow and I'm a biomechanics specialist based in Teesside in the
north east of England.
10
:And I am originally from south east of London, reason being not having a northern accent.
11
:And yes, I work with people one to one, either face to face and online.
12
:to solve their their postural issues which are causing pain and discomfort.
13
:cool.
14
:I'd love to jump into fashion human movement in a bit.
15
:But first off, I'd just like to ask a bit more about Tagfit, which is something I should
have done previously, actually, we've only talked about this.
16
:You could have gone down many routes with your background.
17
:But what spurred you on to sort of start Tagfit?
18
:And specifically, how did you sort of get interested in this sort of functional approach
to movement as a clinical model?
19
:Good question.
20
:think my knowledge from, say, bodybuilding and rugby took a turn when I started doing
functional training and doing CrossFit as a competitor.
21
:So I did a lot of functional training.
22
:I did a lot of functional bodybuilding at the same time to help with competitions.
23
:And that's where I guess my knowledge started to develop more.
24
:into functional training and I knew though however there was a different step there was
another step to functional training from you know a human movement patterns point of view
25
:so I guess CrossFit was the turning point to functional training however I wanted to take
it up a little bit more so when I became a biomechanics specialist
26
:I was looking more to do with asymmetry and symmetrical movement patterns, finding out why
there was pain in the body and finding out if posture was connected to pain.
27
:So a lot of multi-dimensional movements that wasn't really in functional training or
CrossFit, that's where I wanted to start to kind of take my energy more into.
28
:and saw a huge benefit to how my clients were moving.
29
:Okay, fair enough.
30
:Yeah.
31
:No, it's something that again, I can attest to as well.
32
:And it's actually the perfect segue into I suppose what's really my first question, which
is, and this is obviously in your opinion, of course, but why do you think that the
33
:traditional sort of physical therapy and rehab model just doesn't seem to work?
34
:I know it's something.
35
:It's something I definitely think about a lot, having sort of been through the ring of
myself the years trying to deal with my own postural ailments.
36
:And it's something I sort of think of
37
:sort of akin to the sort of the traditional as being akin to the traditional psychotherapy
model, in that we've always known, all of us know of at least someone who's sort of been
38
:in and out of traditional psychotherapy for five, 10, 15, 20 years, and they're still at
square one, they've not really made much improvement.
39
:And that's not to say that these models, whether talk about psychotherapy potentially, or
traditional physical therapy.
40
:don't work.
41
:They just seem to be, again, in my opinion, anyway, very selective.
42
:They seem to work for a few people.
43
:But there are just so many people who just fall through the cracks and just don't seem to
make any progress after sort of months or even years of attempting to sort of fix
44
:themselves in whatever shape or form that takes.
45
:So yeah, going back to the question, why do you think that sort of traditional?
46
:Yeah, that traditional physical therapy approach just doesn't seem to really move the
needle.
47
:that much for so many individuals.
48
:Yeah, I think as you mentioned, there's a lot to rehab.
49
:So firstly, when you look at an individual, it sometimes is just physical and it is just a
structural problem that as you mentioned, some models work great and you can fix that with
50
:an isolated approach, which typically is the method of most practitioners in that field.
51
:There's a shoulder issue, let's try to just rehab the shoulder.
52
:But in isolation, that might work for some.
53
:But I think longer term, the way to help people fully is to have that whole body approach.
54
:And when we work with an individual, when I work with an individual, there's physical
issues.
55
:But of course, physical issues cause emotional problems.
56
:They cause mental problems.
57
:And that can affect other life.
58
:elements really, so sleep, relationships, work, stress, food.
59
:So there's a lot of elements that we need to kind of start to take into effect really when
working with that one person.
60
:So it's not just about the physical training, we need to focus more on food intake,
stress, drugs, work, love, relationships.
61
:All those types of elements need to start to be
62
:been taken into effect really when you're working with somebody because if you're asking
somebody to do certain things in the gym they might find that very stressful and I know
63
:that I've had experience with clients when they come in and they're very very stressed
from their work and the first thing we need to do is just pull them out of that response.
64
:We need to put them more into a relaxed and calm nervous system so that's something I do
you know quite often.
65
:So I think coming back to the question, think a lot of typical approaches these days are
just isolated.
66
:You know, so if there's a problem in the knee, let's, you know, typically it's like, let's
just try to focus on those muscles closest to the pain.
67
:However, that's not always the actual problem is sometimes the problem is higher up.
68
:It's, it's more around hips.
69
:It's more around rib cage.
70
:and then you need to look at the knee and the foot.
71
:So it's more about a chain.
72
:and a link rather than just, okay, we'll train the quadriceps because it's closest to the
knee.
73
:That's not always the full story of what's going on.
74
:Yeah, no, it's, it's definitely the siloed approach that sort of seeps seems to seep
through all of traditional Western medicine, in the sense that you sort of, yeah, if you
75
:got a stomach problem, you go to the gastroenterologist, if you got a thyroid problem, you
go to the endocrinologist.
76
:And it's, yeah, obviously, the same sort of process carries over to the the movement side
of things as well.
77
:I found that sort of
78
:fairly strange that as a sort of a society, a society of medical professionals or whatever
in general that we still look at the body in this sort of very individual as very
79
:individualized components and that I mean, what's the old the old nursery rhyme, something
along the lines of what pulls the knee bone pulls the leg bone something to that extent.
80
:don't know if you remember that.
81
:I remember singing that in nursery.
82
:Yes, it's and it does.
83
:And as you pointed out, mean, again, something we'll get to in a bit, I'm sure.
84
:But I still find it fascinating that you go to a physical therapist and you nobody takes
into account the emotional component.
85
:And what I've been doing is some research into is the sort of the the link between fascia
and mitochondria function.
86
:fascia can sort of impair their body's ability to create energy if it's dehydrated.
87
:I mean, that's definitely a conversation for another day.
88
:But again, it just points to this fact that we sort of again, as a medical society in
general, just look at it through a very sort of myopic or sort of narrow lens.
89
:Anyway, I'm I'm all scripted down a rabbit hole already, which is hardly surprising given
given that it's me.
90
:But
91
:But yeah, but before we Yeah, before I sort of do an Alice and wonder often to never never
land or whatever it is.
92
:Yeah, let's get back on to topics.
93
:So I think I'd what I'd love to jump into next is sort of what postural dysfunction really
is because I think that's a good place to start.
94
:And then potentially how people can start treating these issues.
95
:But to start off with, could you sort of highlight what postural dysfunction is?
96
:Because I think a lot of people will generally only seek out someone like yourself when
they've damaged themselves, when there is an acute injury that has resulted in pain and
97
:dysfunction.
98
:But very few people are going to come to you almost preemptively or someone like you
preemptively when there is a gait issue or an issue with pelvic alignment.
99
:But just to sort of start at the high level, could you sort of define posture, what it is,
and then why we potentially have such an issue with postural health in our society today?
100
:Yeah, for sure.
101
:So I guess posture in a nutshell is how our bodies can withstand gravity and the forces
that are placed on them.
102
:And of course that differs hugely from person to person, some that works in an office
compared to a professional athlete.
103
:But essentially posture is just trying to find its way for us humans to stand on two feet
and how we can do that.
104
:in our best way and start to navigate and move our body is essentially posture.
105
:However, posture of course can be affected in so, so many ways from stress, from the
positions that we hold most and of course how we train and the different types of training
106
:that we do.
107
:Some are less beneficial than others for posture.
108
:But yeah, postural dysfunctions is essentially, I guess,
109
:nice classy word for how you cannot essentially find a function, an optimal function
within the joint to produce what you need power-wise or absorption-wise to hold yourself
110
:on two feet well.
111
:And if there is a dysfunction at one joint then it's going to cause a chain reaction and
it's probably going to be compensated somewhere else.
112
:And over time, doing that again and again and again, that's when we get dysfunctions is
because you lost a function at one joint, you've now conversated with another and that's
113
:now causing a problem.
114
:And again, just like I mentioned, if there's a problem in the hip, there now might be a
problem in the knee and then the foot.
115
:So I guess postural dysfunction is, yeah, like I said, it's the inability to...
116
:to find a function at the joint, whether that's at the shoulder, you need internal
rotation, you need external rotation, you need flexion, you need abduction, you need
117
:adduction.
118
:So if one of those components goes, then of course, your body's gonna try to find it
somewhere else.
119
:And a lot of, as we've mentioned, rehab methods, they don't look at the whole body.
120
:Yeah, again, it's just an isolation.
121
:Do you think that those, those possible postural issues then sort of are potentially the
reason why people then get injured?
122
:Or is it an exacerbating factor?
123
:do you think?
124
:Or is it the most people just sort of come to you with these sorts of injuries, maybe
sporting injuries specifically as a result of maybe just more bad luck than anything else?
125
:Yes, some of it is for sure.
126
:Some of it is, yeah, sportsmen, they've gone over on their ankle and they've been in great
shape, they've never had an injury before.
127
:And sometimes it is just bad luck for sure.
128
:Other people, they've been in chronic pain and injury all their lives and they've tried
all the methods and that's not worked.
129
:And that's when they then try to go down different avenues and they find...
130
:biomechanics specialist like myself.
131
:Some people it's an accumulation of just poor posture, know, sitting down too much, not
moving their bodies enough and then that's you know causing you know limitations in their
132
:joints or you know compression which I'm sure we'll speak about a little bit more.
133
:So yeah sometimes I see a range of different people, it can be sportsmen, it could be just
somebody off the high street,
134
:you know, sometimes it's even young children that have, you know, sometimes they've grown
up and they're they're biased in one side of their body and that's causing a problem, you
135
:know, quite quickly.
136
:So yeah, it doesn't matter who I see, the kind of, the problem is the same, but it just
depends on how they got there.
137
:I guess that's different.
138
:So, especially with adults, you know, typically family life, they forget about their kind
of whole movement.
139
:since they left secondary school and they gave up PE, you know, they start to move less,
their stress levels increase and of course then starts to start to accumulate over time
140
:and yes, if you're going to move less and not look after yourself, you're going to be at
high risk of injuring yourself as well.
141
:But again, a lot of seated positions, lot of desk workers, you know, they're not moving
their hips relatively.
142
:So then of course their back starts to seize up.
143
:And then I think their backs just sore because, you know, their backs sore.
144
:But realistically, it's not just the back, it's the ribcage, it's the pelvis that are not
being able to find those intricate movements and all of a sudden their back hurts.
145
:But it's not worth to say the back would be the problem.
146
:Sometimes it would be the shoulder, it might be the neck, it could be the knee, it be the
ankle.
147
:It just depends how, for that person and their structure makeup, where it goes to, I
guess.
148
:Yeah, I think that sort of points to how important individualized approach to this is.
149
:And again, why you can't just sort of take this cookie cutter approach and just maybe
follow an online program.
150
:mean, I've definitely done that in the past where you sort of just try and follow a
company access sort of guide to rehabilitating all your issues and all you've got to do is
151
:wall angels and loop bridges and and then your heel bit.
152
:it really doesn't work.
153
:just something we'll get to again later, but I just I can't emphasize enough the need to
have someone like yourself working with you with you as an individual to help isolate
154
:these problems because it's it really is.
155
:I mean, I would like to think I'm relatively well, not well read, but that I understand
least the basics in this field.
156
:But still, it's it really is like trying to find a needle.
157
:a haystack if you don't know what you're looking for.
158
:Anyway cool I'd like to sort of dive into into fascia again and yeah without nitpicking on
your contemporary counterparts.
159
:Why?
160
:Okay let me start off with a question before sort of asking why people don't look at
fascia.
161
:What is fascia and why is it sort of
162
:paramount to sort of what you do because I know that's something you focus a lot on
because I have to deal with it on a weekly basis.
163
:Yeah, mean, fascia is one of these things that people hear about and they're just like, I
don't have that or I don't need to work on that or I don't understand it.
164
:So we'll just we'll just leave it.
165
:But people understand muscles.
166
:But I'd like to say in few years time that people start to learn more about fascia than
they do about muscles.
167
:fascia is just a connective tissue and it supports, you know, muscles, bones, nerves,
organs.
168
:It's everywhere.
169
:And that's why it's so, so important.
170
:The best way I like to explain it to the listeners and to maybe the viewers is fascia is
like a sausage and the muscle inside or the meat inside that sausage is the muscle.
171
:But the fascia would be that thin casing that's around the sausage which holds its shape
and it's pretty strong.
172
:like it can do some amazing things.
173
:It should be elastic.
174
:But unfortunately because of the way we move or the way we don't move or the way we eat,
the way we sleep, stress levels, it becomes less elastic and that's when the troubles come
175
:in.
176
:But essentially if we don't have healthy fascia then we're not going to be able to
maintain the integrity of our structure and it's going to make us, yeah.
177
:It's going to, we're going to find it harder to move if our fascia is less healthy and
dehydrated and sticky.
178
:And I guess what we have with fascia, you've got two, you've got three different layers.
179
:You've got the superficial layer, which is just underneath the skin, connects with the
fat.
180
:You've got the deep fascia, which is surrounding the muscles, the bones, the nerves.
181
:And then you've got the visceral fascia, which is more around the internal organs.
182
:So there's lots of fascia and there's, know, we all want to, we're trying to improve.
183
:all three but really we want the ones that is you know more around the muscles and bones
and that's what I'm looking at.
184
:So the deep fascia is what we're trying to improve the health form because that will help
move our bones and then of course that allows us to move more freely.
185
:So yeah sorry I'm probably rambling on a bit more there so I'm sure you've got more
questions on fascia.
186
:Yeah, no, I was just going to sort of ask sort of beyond the basics of maybe just not
moving correctly.
187
:Are there any sort of other triggers as to why fascia, excuse me, would be become maybe
dysfunctional?
188
:I mean, you pointed to hydration.
189
:that is that just a case of poor movement leading to fascia becoming dehydrated in a
sense?
190
:Is it a case of that someone maybe not becoming
191
:not being in the literal sense hydrated enough, maybe not getting enough electrolytes in,
or are there other reasons?
192
:obviously, if you have these, and I mean, so many people obviously do today, you have sort
of comorbidities as well, high levels of inflammation in the body as a result of some
193
:state of dis-ease, it were, whether that's an infection or some sort of chronic fatigue or
whatever.
194
:Are these
195
:sort of contributing issues towards this sort of fascial dysfunction?
196
:Or is it really just a case of maybe sedentary behavior?
197
:yeah.
198
:Yeah, think the most important one I look on is the behaviours of their bodily movements
every day.
199
:The first one is if we're not moving our bodies dynamically enough, then it's going to
become sticky, it's going to become dehydrated and joints and muscles are not going to be
200
:able to glide so effortlessly and that causes dysfunction, it causes you to feel tight,
which is, I know, very common in...
201
:today's society, people are like, I'm always feeling tight and stiff, so I must stretch.
202
:But they don't need to stretch.
203
:They don't need to stretch necessarily.
204
:It's more to do about rehydrating their fascia, which going on to methods on how to
improve fascia hydration, we can of course go into that.
205
:But yeah, of course there's other things that do contribute to poor fascia.
206
:Hydration is one of them, course, we need to, of course, drink enough.
207
:It doesn't necessarily connect hugely.
208
:So if somebody drinks a lot of water, it doesn't necessarily mean your fascia is going to
be healthier because you still need that fluid to move into the fascia.
209
:that comes from movement and that comes through acupressure techniques, which will then
place that negatively charged water into the fascia.
210
:So, yeah.
211
:Sorry, probably not.
212
:That's perfect.
213
:Just Yeah, maybe let's just go to take a deeper dive into some of the other techniques
that sort of are utilized quite commonly to sort of support facial health things like is
214
:it a thing or and Graston techniques?
215
:Do you think those are effective?
216
:I mean, if you type in roll thing or grass and into Google search now, you will probably
be greeted by Google safe search filter, because some of the
217
:some of those images are pretty horrific when people have had that sort of that that
fashion those fashion adhesions broken up.
218
:It looks like they've just been through the ring and being beaten senseless is just so
much at least superficial bruising that seems to appear.
219
:Do you think those are effective or are they just doing more damage than they are good?
220
:Yes, I don't want to cause anyone any harm by maybe that's what they do for a service but
I would say there's a lot, there's other comfortable ways to improve fascia than just
221
:maybe getting a nice big metal comb on your leg and you're just going to sit there until
you cry because that's how it makes you feel.
222
:I've experienced it myself and yes it will cause benefit, it will cause more.
223
:or to pull into the fascia and become more elastic.
224
:But that's not the long term fix that people need.
225
:They need to be moving more dynamically.
226
:They need to be moving more multi-dimensionally, meaning they're moving their bodies in a
way that replicates human movement, i.e.
227
:standing, walking, running, throwing.
228
:And those are the movements that we need to do more of and less isolated movements like
typical bodybuilding training.
229
:is isolation.
230
:know, you go to the gym, you hit your chest, you hit your arms, you hit your legs, you hit
your calves.
231
:But training that way is just going to pull on the fascia and it's going to isolate those
areas for that day.
232
:And then you're causing almost disconnect between fascia chains.
233
:So we want to get from our feet up to our head and those chains all from the head to the
to the feet working together.
234
:just like little elastic bands connecting and they're all doing the same job at once,
rather than let's just use the chest and the arms and that's what we're gonna do for that
235
:day.
236
:Because if you think about the body, when does it ever move like that?
237
:You never do a movement and your chest and your arms are just working.
238
:It's, what are you doing?
239
:Are you reaching up to grab a can of beans out of the cupboard?
240
:And your torso's rotating, you're on your tiptoes, you're looking, and so you're next
moving.
241
:Fashion needs to be more addressed with certain types of movement, with certain types of
acupressure techniques.
242
:And people can do those every day.
243
:As you know, sometimes I give you those acupressure techniques before we start to train
because it will make you move better and you'll be able to get in better positions.
244
:And people can do that, but it takes a change of training style.
245
:And of course, knowledge to know what acupressure technique to do, which is something I
offer as something online you can grab and you can do 10 to 15 minutes a day and your
246
:fascia will be more rehydrated, it'll be more elastic.
247
:And then if you went into your workout with multi-dimensional movements, you wouldn't need
to stretch and you wouldn't feel stiff.
248
:However, typically in today's society, what you get is...
249
:people go to the gym and hit their legs, then they go to do their chest the next day, then
they separate their cardiovascular work, and then they go, I'm tired, I'll book in for a
250
:massage, or I'll book in for some techniques that you've mentioned, and that might help
for a day or two after, and then of course they go straight back to how they felt before
251
:the treatment, but they don't necessarily need to feel like that, they could never feel
tired ever again, and never need to stretch again.
252
:And that's something I'm sure that you're probably going to mention, but we don't need to
statically stretch.
253
:that's such a myth, posture myth is you need to stretch.
254
:You don't need to statically stretch if you move dimensionally and you're moving in
rotational planes and the whole fascia is working as one.
255
:You shouldn't ever need to statically stretch.
256
:Dynamic stretching will happen in muscles as you're going through those motions.
257
:We just need to start to, society just needs to take another look on training.
258
:And of course that's what I advocate and that's what I try to teach clients.
259
:unfortunately there's millions of people in the world and there's thousands of people
around my area that may never know because I work one to one a one to one basis.
260
:But fingers crossed, things like this amazing podcast, you'll find out people listening
and hopefully can start to learn.
261
:those ways of treating their body and think about the skeleton and think about fascia
before they just think about size of muscles and what their muscles can produce in terms
262
:of how much dead lifting can I do and how much weight can I push.
263
:We need to think about the body a little bit more systemically so it feels good all the
time.
264
:Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
265
:And I think, well, courtesy of the sort of maybe stalking your Instagram account, I'd
definitely be able to find a few people online who think a bit more sort of fluidly for
266
:want of a better word, maybe that's a pun.
267
:But yeah, I'd love to chat about the training stuff in a bit, but let's sort of have a
quick discussion just about stretching.
268
:Do you find that there are a lot of people?
269
:harm who come to you who tend to use sort of pointed to earlier, having tried to deal with
their pain by just overstretching and sort of then creating more issues than they're not,
270
:or is it less of an issue than maybe I think it is?
271
:No, I think it is quite a big issue.
272
:think, yeah, we are stretching instead of doing myofascial release techniques.
273
:We're stretching because our skeleton is in a certain alignment, which is causing muscles
to tighten up.
274
:So that means that the muscles are actually not the problem.
275
:It's actually the position of the skeleton that we need to improve and also the joint
position.
276
:And therefore that joint then, sorry, that...
277
:that muscle then wouldn't feel tight so you wouldn't necessarily need to stretch.
278
:Just like for an example is the hamstrings.
279
:Most people go, my hamstrings, I cannot touch my toes.
280
:Actually, most cases people have an anterior, know, 80 % of the population have an
anterior pelvic tilt, meaning their ribs flare and they also combine that with their
281
:bottom looking like it's sticking out.
282
:So they have that really big lordosis, that big arch shape in their lumbar spine.
283
:However, if you think about the skeleton, when that pelvis rolls forward and the ribs
flare, the hamstrings will naturally stand in left from position.
284
:So from the back of the knee to the bottom, just imagine an elastic band is constantly
being stretched.
285
:And then you're asking yourself to find more pelvic tilt forwards as you're touching your
toes.
286
:So if you don't have any more forward pelvic tilt, you can't touch your toes.
287
:So the muscles in your hamstrings are always going to feel tight.
288
:So however, if we looked at the pelvis in another way and we start to get that pelvis to
roll back into a neutral position underneath the ribs, then the hamstrings start to find a
289
:little bit more, they become a little bit more slapped and they don't become so
lengthened.
290
:Then somebody wouldn't experience that whole tightness of their hamstrings and they would
probably be able to touch their toes because they're able to roll their pelvis on top of
291
:their femurs and automatically they would have, you know, better mobility or flexibility
in their eyes.
292
:So yeah, there's a big difference between, you know, the problem isn't the muscle.
293
:It's not the stretching that you need.
294
:It's positioning first.
295
:And of course, what I see on a day-to-day basis is everybody has a slightly different
position of their pelvis or their ribcage.
296
:And then it's about addressing that with specific movements for them rather than just
like, you know, one exercise fits all, which unfortunately most of the time
297
:doesn't happen because somebody might not be able to get onto the floor, somebody might
not be able to rotate yet, or they're very fearful of it, which comes back down to, you
298
:know, the model we spoke about is, you know, you're treating people with emotions and
we're human, so we need to be mindful of what positioning we're doing with them to start
299
:with until they gain control and then you can start to maybe go back into the exercise
deeper down into their training career, I guess.
300
:Yeah, no, sort of already.
301
:How do I best describe this apart from saying all roads lead to Rome?
302
:Yeah, I think well, apart from saying it's spot on, because I do fundamentally agree with
you.
303
:Well, not fundamentally completely, in fact, but you've really sort of created the perfect
segue into my next sort of of talking points, which is the pelvis and something that I've
304
:personally struggled with for a number of years, which I think is
305
:fundamentally at the root of my problems, which are these various sort of pelvic tilts, as
you sort of alluded to earlier, you obviously get different types of pelvic tilts, you get
306
:lateral pelvic tilts and these sort of more sagittal pelvic tilts where you've got either
a sort of a Donald Duck phenomenon, phenonym, I should never say that word again, because
307
:I can't get it right.
308
:Where you sort of have your
309
:to be blunt about your ass sticking out a bit.
310
:And then you've obviously got the inverse, which is where it's sort of tucked in.
311
:In my understanding, for a lot of people anyway, people I've sort of talked to over the
years and then suggested that they see someone such as yourself, most of them have, they
312
:appear to have their issues rooted in this sort of pelvic dysfunction, whether it be
lateral, as I said, or the sort of sagittal.
313
:all these sagittal issues.
314
:Could you sort of speak to that further?
315
:And why potentially I might be completely off base here?
316
:Why pelvic stability is so important when talking about someone's biomechanics?
317
:Yeah, for sure.
318
:You know, if you think about what the pelvis is doing for movement, it's absorbing, it's
allowing us to yield.
319
:So the spine, the rib cage and the pelvis, they all need to work together and they all
need to have the right amount of motions.
320
:The pelvis, as you said, it can have many different shapes and it can have many
different...
321
:positions at rest, but then of course when you move it can heighten and intensify that
motion that it's doing, which causes then problems, you know, further into the muscle
322
:chains.
323
:But yeah, lots of people have different types of different types of pelvis position.
324
:So we have sway back where, you know, the glutes are heavily underneath us and the rib and
sorry, the pelvis is more externally rotated.
325
:So if you think about a flower,
326
:it's going out like this so then somebody's glutes are really tucked underneath them
they're really holding them from falling forwards which is very similar I guess to an
327
:anterior pelvic tilt but the difference is what the pelvis is doing so sometimes the
pelvis is pushing forwards but it's not tilting forwards so that's two different types but
328
:as you say we sometimes have a tilt where
329
:we actually have a hike.
330
:So there's one hip higher than the other, which then of course, as you move, that will
cause you to try to push out of that side because you cannot find any more space on the
331
:pelvis.
332
:So yeah, I guess the pelvis is really the source of absorption and power.
333
:So we need both, of course, to move better and move well.
334
:and the pelvis should always be addressed whenever there's a dysfunction in the body.
335
:Yeah.
336
:Again, it's something I can attest to personally.
337
:And I think it's the root of at least most of my issues as far as as far as I can tell
anyway.
338
:Again, maybe you could attest to that.
339
:do you have I know this is like asking how long a piece of string is.
340
:But do you have any sort of general hacks or tips or sort of just general idea is that
people can use to start sort of
341
:correcting a pelvic tilt maybe before they come and see you.
342
:I know the one and maybe I'm here I'm thinking more of sort of movement patterns that
people shouldn't be sort of falling into.
343
:I think the one that stereotypically sort of jumps into my head off the bat is the mom on
her phone holding the baby on the hip trying to do five things at once and then that
344
:creating that sort of imbalance as a result of that one hip being hiked up so that
obviously she can hold the baby on it and that is very
345
:generalized and stereotypical, course.
346
:But are there any sort of movements that people should maybe not be sort of sort of
partaking in to sort of drive that dysfunction to begin with?
347
:I guess there's so many, there's so many like the one as you mentioned, you know, how big
technology is these days, we're all staring down at our phones and being online all the
348
:time.
349
:So that causes, you know, that forward head position.
350
:But I guess the first thing that I do with any client is teach them how to restore
something called zone of opposition, which is the relationship between the rib cage and
351
:the pelvis.
352
:So we just want to make sure those two things are steps on top of each other.
353
:The stack as you know all about that.
354
:It's pretty cruel through dynamic movements as you know.
355
:It's pretty tasty.
356
:It gets your muscles really firing to try and hold that.
357
:So the floor is a great way and a great tool to use to allow somebody to learn how to
regain that zone of opposition.
358
:With the breathing, with the combined breathing that we do, the corrective breathing in
terms of looking at the tongue position and how we breathe in and how we breathe out
359
:correctly, that will allow us to retrain that zone of fat position and teach the body to
hold that.
360
:So the best position I would personally or the best exercise I would personally do with
somebody is to lay on the floor with their knees at 90 degrees and their hips at 90
361
:degrees.
362
:their feet are shoulder-per-part and I just place my hand or I'd get them to place their
hands just next door to their belly button and the cue that I really like that works very
363
:very well without crunching their core muscles and trying to find it that way is talk
about the label that they have in the back of their shorts or their trousers and trying to
364
:place that label on the ground.
365
:What that does is allow them to subtly pull their pelvis back rather than trying to
366
:find it from crunching from their core and then their head lifts up and they're getting
too tight in their six pack muscles.
367
:So once they've got that label on the ground and they're relaxed in their legs and they're
relaxed in their head is get them to breathe in a certain way that is optimal, which most
368
:of us know is that we should use our nose for breathing and our mouth is for eating and
singing and talking and communicating.
369
:The way we breathe is breathing in through the nose, gently, calmly, shouldn't make a
sound.
370
:And then on the exhale, you can breathe out through a nice wide mouth, which then allows
those tummy muscles on the side of our hips to start engaging.
371
:And we just want to make sure whilst we're doing this, we're relaxed and that we don't
have any head tension.
372
:We're not tightening up anywhere.
373
:And we're just maintaining that label on the ground whilst breathing.
374
:And that is a fantastic way to restore
375
:the stack, so the pelvis is right underneath the ribs.
376
:And it allows you to train up the tummy muscles to get back some balance.
377
:So that's a fantastic exercise and there's lots of many things that movement itself does,
but I won't go into too far.
378
:But that's probably the best one I'd say is any floor exercises to start with, then you
can retrain, which as you know, I will take that into then more upright positions and see
379
:if they can maintain that.
380
:there which is you know they'll be they'll be they'll be told when they can they can do it
and you know I'll be honest with them and say that if they can't then we're staying back
381
:to the floor for a few weeks.
382
:Yeah.
383
:Just keeping an eye on the time.
384
:How much time do you have?
385
:Errr, I have probably about 20 minutes.
386
:Okay, perfect.
387
:Yeah, right.
388
:So what we'll do then is I want to get through some I suddenly realized that maybe we
should talk about head posture and tongue ties and but I think that we might run out of
389
:time.
390
:Unless that's something that you would would like to talk about.
391
:So next time was maybe going to sort of talk about more about just go into why the
bodybuilding side of things is potentially an issue.
392
:So maybe we could segue there.
393
:And then
394
:follow up with how to find a practitioner and then some rapid fire questions.
395
:Yeah, man, that sounds good.
396
:Yeah.
397
:Okay, let's get back to where I was.
398
:Okay, so...
399
:Yeah, I can attest to that as well.
400
:I think for the first month, at least you had me just laying on my back, sort of squeezing
a ball between my legs staring at the ceiling.
401
:And I was just wondering what the hell I was doing.
402
:But it definitely sort of helped me to sort of to feel when I was walking, I like my
glutes started to walk a bit more, I just had a bit more, I felt a bit more neutral,
403
:obviously didn't fix
404
:problem, but I didn't feel like there was as much sort of tension in those those quadratus
lumborum muscles, those sort of deep muscles between the ribs and the hip hips that tend
405
:to get very tight and so many people.
406
:So yeah, it's definitely sound advice and a great place to start.
407
:Just sort of tie up there.
408
:As I mentioned earlier, working with practitioners like you is first prize and but
409
:you are a bit of a snowflake in the sense that you're well I think yeah that could it
depends where you're on the world that could be right.
410
:from London, I am a Southern fairy.
411
:I don't know, we'll bypass that one by that.
412
:You're not I mean, you're you're certainly unique in your skill set.
413
:And yeah, let's put it like that.
414
:And and unless someone's maybe in Teesside or Northeast England, they probably don't have
direct access to you.
415
:But and I know you offer some online services as well.
416
:But for people who are listening or maybe are broad or just get
417
:other side of the country or what have you or want a personalized approach.
418
:What should they be looking for when they are looking for a practitioner such as yourself
to help them with their with their issues?
419
:Yeah, I think somebody needs to think outside the box and maybe, maybe not look at your
typical gym settings where a lot of maybe typical trainers are using machines.
420
:You know, and we want to start looking more at trainers that look at the body as a whole
body approach rather than just let's go onto a machine and, you know, just build up some
421
:strength.
422
:So,
423
:Yeah, I guess there's probably directories out there.
424
:But if you can find somebody that understands rotational movement, and they are looking
more at mastering body weight movements, and they touch on breathing mechanics, and they
425
:look at kind of the whole nervous system as well and how it plays a role when you're, you
know, when you're training, maybe possibly from an injury.
426
:But I'd say the best, yeah, the best.
427
:Advice I would say when looking for a trainer is make sure they are looking or they like
to incorporate rotational movements within their sessions as well as all of the breathing
428
:work and the whole holistic approach of actually moving their body as one.
429
:That would be the best recommendation.
430
:Yeah, that's sound advice.
431
:I think what sort of struck me most about you when I sort of was looking around was the
fact that you were had a very strong emphasis on facial health and the rotation stuff, as
432
:you mentioned, I think, just through my own experience as well.
433
:So many practitioners just tend to focus on the sort of unilateral movements, isometric
movements, without sort of taking into account
434
:yeah, the sort of the spinal spinal engine as it were the fact that the spine controls so
much movement and that has and that there is an asymmetry in the spine or hips that that
435
:that can't, at least for the most part and again, in my experience be necessarily
corrected just with the sort of unilateral movements.
436
:So yeah, that's that's amazing advice.
437
:Awesome.
438
:I'd like to pivot
439
:into some fun stuff now and maybe we can talk about training, specifically in athletic
populations.
440
:Now obviously most people who train are going to do so for the purpose of aesthetic goals
and obviously for health reasons as well.
441
:Everybody knows that they need to exercise to remain healthy.
442
:But training an athlete is always something that's been a great interest to me.
443
:Obviously, it's very context dependent.
444
:And it depends on the sport depends on individual their goals and all that good stuff.
445
:But when working with an athlete, how do you approach?
446
:How do you approach that?
447
:I mean, do you follow a sort of a periodized model, whereby maybe you sort of have them
doing
448
:If for example, and maybe we can use an example of an endurance athlete, would you have
them working through a strength period and then focus more on endurance work?
449
:Do you sort of just keep it consistent throughout the year?
450
:How do you sort of look at that plotted out and then work with them?
451
:Yeah, no, that's a very, very good question.
452
:And sportsmen are funny creatures.
453
:They, as you say, it depends on what sport it is.
454
:you know, the first thing about learning about any athlete is what demand are they under?
455
:Are they a seasonal athlete?
456
:Are they somebody that plays all year round?
457
:Of course, typically, if they're high level, they do have a season.
458
:So then training should be based around that.
459
:But if we look at an example of an endurance athlete, let's just say typically they
compete in six months of the year and it's during summer time.
460
:Then the first thing I would ask an athlete is where do you feel like you're weak?
461
:And just pass the buck over to them because they're the ones in their own body and they're
the ones that know if they get into a point in a race and they're like...
462
:I'm finding the sticky point here or, you know, I find that my legs are not very strong.
463
:Let's say it's a triathlete and let's just go in from the bike to the run or the run to
the bike and they're saying, that's when I'm feeling, I don't feel like my legs have very
464
:good power after my run.
465
:So finding out that first would be essential and that could be different for a rugby
player or a football player or a fighter.
466
:You just ask them, where do they feel like they're weak?
467
:I also have in the past taken quite a look at their actual performance and take a look and
analyse how they move.
468
:And if I can see any areas where they're compensating, then we'll address those and I'll
explain to them why.
469
:You know, you're finding maybe your legs are tiring out because you're compensating
somewhere.
470
:But yeah, it just depends really.
471
:An endurance athlete of course needs a huge base of respiratory...
472
:know, stamina and, you know, and that of course, shout straight at me is can they breathe
well?
473
:Because we can all kind of get through maybe a two mile run and kind of use our mouth, but
you know, these guys are hours and hours on end.
474
:So their breathing mechanics right now, need to be there.
475
:So, you know, we need to ensure that their diaphragm is strong.
476
:We need to ensure that they're not overly compressed in their rib cage because when
they're running, that's only going to heighten and they're to dump everything on top of
477
:their chest and that's.
478
:gonna cause their diaphragm not to be able to function properly.
479
:But yeah, mean, endurance athletes are, you know, one of these people or athletes, they're
the humans that will just want to train every day.
480
:And typically they won't do enough strength training.
481
:So incorporating a little bit of strength training into their week, maybe that's once or
twice, dependent on their, you know, history of strength training is they'll find a huge
482
:benefit to...
483
:to their running performance or whatever they might be endurance athletes in.
484
:And those strength movements want to replicate what they do in their sport.
485
:So maybe they're a swimmer.
486
:If they're a swimmer and they're endurance swimmer in that, then you need to replicate
what movements they do in the pool and what their joints are doing through that action and
487
:replicate that in the gym.
488
:And find as many specific movements as you can to...
489
:to essentially find that same demand that they're under.
490
:And I would always say that you start very, very basic and you build, you know, levels to
it as they get better and better and depending on where they are in the season.
491
:So through winter, they might need to do a lot of strength training.
492
:And then that way, as they get kind of closer into their season, they start to put more
and more kind of endurance runs into their routines and then strip away the strength
493
:training a little bit.
494
:but it all depends on the actual athlete.
495
:But something that is really very interesting in my coaching and I have trained a lot of
athletes is, know, everyone's individual and even though you might have two footballers,
496
:they might be totally different.
497
:But yeah, essentially with sport, you need to find specific movement patterns that they do
on the pitch, replicate that in the gym and build on those.
498
:And of course they need a lot of skill as well.
499
:you know, there's a lot of proprioception, there's a lot of awareness that they need.
500
:They might need to be quite tactical as well.
501
:So they need to actually be quite mentally sharp.
502
:So that's something that you can also add into physical demands in the gym, which, you
know, you can get really creative with.
503
:And that's something that I do really enjoy.
504
:I do enjoy training athletes quite a lot.
505
:Yeah, no, can imagine I can.
506
:Yeah, I can imagine that you do.
507
:It's it's great working with individuals who are just high performance high achievers.
508
:I was as you were just going through that I was just thinking of my sort of my days as an
endurance athlete.
509
:Well in my past now when I was a dead keen cyclist and it was my life's ambition to go pro
and all of that and yeah, I just I I wish I'd spent more time.
510
:focusing on positional strength.
511
:I think growing up cycling, you think you have a strong core, strong glutes, strong legs.
512
:And at the end of the day, all you end up with is strong quads, hammies, weak hip flexors
and weak glutes.
513
:it goes, yeah, and obviously, very little positional strength in the upper body, which
sort of, yeah, just going back to it, I just think
514
:what could I what would what could have been and those nostalgia and all that if I just
sort of spent more time there and maybe I'll get back to it hopefully I will but okay nice
515
:well I'll I'll I'll hold myself to that I'm not gonna hold you to that because it's on me
that's okay sweet well that's the deal we'll work to it anyway uh let's move
516
:on because I want to be aware of time and I also would love to sort of sort of have more
of a chat about where general strength training goes wrong.
517
:I know you've sort of touched on it already.
518
:And maybe we can bypass some of the the issues with with traditional bodybuilding and
strength training because we have already discussed it.
519
:But how does someone necessarily
520
:train for aesthetics when trying to take a functional approach to their training.
521
:I know that bodybuilding is obviously very much aimed at hypertrophy.
522
:mean, you've been a bodybuilder, you understand the demands there.
523
:You need to put more emphasis into sort of isolation movements to really focus on that
sort of those eccentric loads, time and attention.
524
:for a larger range of motion.
525
:And where that is definitely the case with a lot of functional patterns and functional
movements, there isn't necessarily that sort of that isolation work that is maybe optimal
526
:for hypertrophy, which again, in my mind is what at least 95 % of the population is after.
527
:And if they tell you that they're not, I think they're just lying because obviously
everybody wants to look good and feel good.
528
:So how do you mix those two up to the point where you can sort of be functional in your
movements, but then also make gains and without relying on trend and TRT and every other
529
:special source under the sun.
530
:No, I love this question because, you know, essentially that's where I've come from and
now taking the two is trying to merge them.
531
:So the first thing when I ever think about bodybuilding or bodybuilders now is think of
what movements they are doing.
532
:Typically, they are machines or yes, they could be dumbbells, barbells, but the
positioning of those movements are typically quite easy to get into.
533
:So, you know, sitting on a leg extension machine, you're already in that position.
534
:Or let's just say you're doing a lap pull down, you've got two nice handles situated right
over your head, and you've got something nice to, you know, put your knees under and
535
:that's going to hold you there.
536
:But then it takes away, that takes away the stability of doing that movement.
537
:But it also, it puts the joint into a position and you don't need to then think about the
joint throughout the action.
538
:So I would personally say,
539
:is we just need to think about the positioning that these people are getting in first.
540
:So i.e.
541
:if we're doing a lat pull down, you know, how can we make it a little bit harder for the
pelvis and how can we make the scapula move more at the same time as getting strong and
542
:building muscle mass.
543
:Now muscle can be grown loads of different ways, loads of different ways.
544
:Essentially a muscle just wants stimulus.
545
:and it doesn't know if it's using a five kilo dumbbell or 50, but it knows it's when it's
hard.
546
:So that will then of course, if we get into a really tough position, that means we don't
need to use as much weight and then we can just use duration to then intensify it.
547
:So with with a save a lap or down, what I like to do is get somebody sitting on the ground
almost in like a, a sideline position, but their legs are almost in like a figure of four.
548
:So like one foot laps on top of the other.
549
:And then we're almost like leaning to the side a little bit.
550
:So then we can get almost a stretch up and out.
551
:So that the scapula is getting quite pulled externally out around the rib cage.
552
:And then as we come down, we're twisting the handle and we're bringing the elbow into a
certain spot in between our groins.
553
:But whilst we're doing that, the twist is helping the scapula move.
554
:The position of your pelvis means
555
:that one hip is doing something relatively different to the other.
556
:And then we're looking to make sure the spine can stay tall.
557
:So at least we have some integrity from the core trying to work rather than just trying to
switch it off and yank as much weight down as possible.
558
:So you can just get really creative.
559
:And that's what I love about my work is that you can still build a lot of muscle.
560
:You can still build a lot of strength and you can look fantastically well.
561
:but still have great mobility.
562
:It just all comes down to exercise selection.
563
:So if you're doing your legs and you're always doing them on the leg press, well, you
think about a leg press, well, you're just pushing it forward and back.
564
:But if you did a lunge position, you have more stabilizing muscles needed to come into
play.
565
:And you can add in a little rotation as you go down as well to that side of the leg.
566
:And then that incorporates some obliques, that engages some QL muscles.
567
:And then your ankles are getting worked, know, they're getting that stability that you
need.
568
:So is your knee, so is your hip.
569
:So it's a simple little tweak that people can do.
570
:But the only thing about that is it means that people use less weight and lots of people
don't like to do that.
571
:And unfortunately, that's just the way we kind of, you know, we all like to push big
waves, who doesn't?
572
:It sometimes feels amazing.
573
:But for certain results, we can get them a lot simpler.
574
:with a lot less effort so we can get there in a smarter way.
575
:We like to work hard, I appreciate we all like to work hard, but we also can make really
smart choices to get a better result without putting so much demand on the joints and over
576
:long term that's going to ensure that the joint then doesn't wear out and you know we're
all going to get older so we need to make sure that the longevity of our joints are as
577
:good when we're 30 as good as when we're 60, 70.
578
:So it just depends on what exercise we're choosing can make a
579
:big difference straight away, but also long term.
580
:Yeah, I think it's just about questioning the paradigm in which you sort of operate and be
willing to sort of look outside the box.
581
:I think that someone like Michael Zretel, who I'm sure you're familiar with, definitely
sort of helped in that regard, with regard to talking about exercise selection and then
582
:also sort of
583
:range of motion and then also sort of focusing on movement quality and not necessarily
just the amount of weight that you're moving in.
584
:Yeah, getting that that muscle into the most inefficient position perhaps so that you then
can place the largest amount of stress on it with the lowest amount of weight because as
585
:you sort of alluded to earlier, the the muscle doesn't know
586
:what how much weight you're moving it only knows how much stress is being placed upon it
perhaps I suppose the joints in the nervous system are probably more sort of open to how
587
:much weight you're lifting if that makes sense yeah okay Harry I know we're starting to
run up on time so and thank you for that that that was an amazing an amazing answer but
588
:To sort of wrap up, I'd like to ask a few rapid fire questions if that's okay.
589
:They're just interesting.
590
:They sort of leave the audience with a few little nuggets of wisdom.
591
:Would that be okay?
592
:Yeah, man, how quick?
593
:or let's say, yeah, as quick as you can make them sort of 30 seconds, 60 seconds.
594
:But they don't have to.
595
:mean, yeah, just as simple.
596
:Yeah, as they roll off the tongue, let's say.
597
:So, okay, first one, what's the biggest myth about posture and movement that you see on
regular basis?
598
:people need to stretch.
599
:Yeah, okay, that was that was short to the point.
600
:Okay, cool.
601
:If you could do any one type of movement for from a longevity perspective, what would it
be?
602
:Just one?
603
:Okay, two.
604
:Run.
605
:and I would do Turkish get ups.
606
:that's a nasty one.
607
:Yeah, fair enough.
608
:Okay, what's the one movement pattern that you see people neglecting or not doing that you
think they shouldn't?
609
:would say so essentially the core the trunk stabilization so can the the call can the
trunk stay stable under different types of load from the side from top down from bottom up
610
:Okay, so all the positional strength stuff.
611
:Okay.
612
:Fair.
613
:Cool.
614
:If you could change one thing about how fitness is taught, what would it be?
615
:I would say it would be to take a more whole body approach.
616
:fitness coaches need to understand that what works for them personally as a coach or other
clients may not work for everyone.
617
:Yeah, I think that's, that's a decent answer.
618
:And I think that sort of also illustrates the fact that you probably shouldn't necessarily
follow your favorite influences worker online.
619
:Because let's be honest, at the end of the day, they got there, not denying that they
worked hard, but it's it's 99 % genetics.
620
:So that
621
:a good coach can understand that the movement for one person might work really well and
another person might need the exact same result or they might need that same kind of joint
622
:unlocking.
623
:Oops.
624
:But, you'll have to cut this hair off.
625
:My stand has just died.
626
:One second.
627
:That's all good, don't worry.
628
:I will just move that down and put this up here.
629
:That's fine.
630
:We've only got to do the basically.
631
:Yeah, that's fine.
632
:Okay, so
633
:go and ask it again, Rob.
634
:No, we've got the questions that that's fine.
635
:I think we're just blithering on.
636
:Luke can look, we'll very kindly be able to cut that out.
637
:So, okay.
638
:I answer it?
639
:Did we answer it?
640
:I think we did, we were just talking.
641
:Okay, well let me ask it again.
642
:If you could change one thing about how fitness is taught, what would it be?
643
:I would say that what works for one person may not work for another.
644
:So the exercise selection is key in getting a result.
645
:Two different people might need the same thing, but two people can be totally different in
terms of how they achieve it.
646
:So I would say a good coach would be able to see the same problem and be able to fix it 10
different ways.
647
:and use different positions, different types of modalities, intensities, positions to get
that same result.
648
:Perfect answer.
649
:Okay, final one.
650
:What's your go-to recovery technique?
651
:Ooh, err, eat?
652
:No, would say contrast therapy would be my favourite.
653
:So that means hot into cold, back to hot, back to cold.
654
:Yeah, my favourite is a sauna into a really cold plunge.
655
:I live in the north-east of England, I'll stick to the sauna bit for the moment, thanks
for my nervous system.
656
:It's going to be summer soon and it will still be only 12 degrees.
657
:There we go.
658
:Who needs a cold plunge?
659
:go outside.
660
:Harry, you've been a star.
661
:Thank you so much.
662
:I look forward to our next session, I think.
663
:But until then, and for everybody else, where's the best place they can find you?
664
:And obviously, willing to your socials all of that.
665
:Is there anywhere you'd like to point people specifically?
666
:I think the best place for most people would be to check me out on Instagram and that's
just at Tagfit.
667
:You can also look at my website which is tagfit.co.uk where that gives you pretty much the
five step process that I take most clients through, a little bit about me and there's
668
:plenty of pretty brilliant reviews on there as well from clients.
669
:Yeah.
670
:Yeah, and I'll attest that you really are by far and away the most knowledgeable
practitioner in this space I've ever worked with.
671
:So if anybody is in the northeast of England, then I can't recommend you enough and yeah,
say what you will but I'm a fan.
672
:So if you're listening and you have a dodgy back, Harry's your man.
673
:But yeah, thanks again, Harry.
674
:I appreciate the time and look forward to seeing you soon.
675
:Thank you very much Rob.
676
:Pleasure, mate.
