#013 Dr. Andreas Goddeeris - Ozone Therapy Uncovered: The Treatment You Haven't Heard Of
vitalityPRO
#013 Dr. Andreas Goddeeris - Ozone Therapy Uncovered: The Treatment You Haven't Heard Of
Dr. Andreas Goddeeris is a holistically focused medical doctor from Belgium. Originally trained as a general practitioner and emergency doctor, Andreas went on to specialise in sports medicine.
While working in emergency care and sports medicine, he recognised the limitations of conventional medicine. Driven by a desire to provide more comprehensive care, Andreas then went on to complete functional and complementary medicine training.
In 2022, Andreas set up his practice in Ibiza, where he further honed his expertise in integrative treatments such as IV vitamin administration, Systemic Ozone and Prolozone Therapy.
He firmly believes that true healing comes from addressing the root causes of illness rather than merely managing symptoms. By nourishing the body with the right nutrients, therapies, lifestyle and mindset adjustments, it can naturally restore itself and regain balance.
> During our discussion, you’ll discover:
(00:02:37) How Andreas got into Ozone therapy
(00:06:46) The history of Ozone therapy
(00:14:13) How does Ozone therapy actually work
(00:21:15) How Ozone therapy can target viruses
(00:25:22) Potential side effects of Ozone therapy
(00:26:41) Who should avoid Ozone therapy
(00:29:46) Should athletes use Ozone therapy
(00:31:47) How is Ozone therapy administered
(00:34:13) Reducing the inflammatory response
(00:35:54) What other therapies and supplements does Andreas use
(00:37:50) How does Andreas treat his patients
(00:44:27) Ozone therapy at home
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Transcript
Hello everybody and welcome to the vP Life podcast, brought to you by vitalityPRO.
Speaker:My name's Rob and I'll be your host on today's episode.
Speaker:Today we're joined by Dr. Andreas Goddeeris, a medical doctor based in
Speaker:Ibiza who has a passion for functional medicine and in particular ozone therapy.
Speaker:During our discussion today, Andreas and I take a deep dive into what
Speaker:ozone therapy is, its history, and why it's not more mainstream.
Speaker:We also discuss how it works and why it's an effective option when traditional
Speaker:treatment options fail or are ineffective.
Speaker:As usual, we get through a lot in today's episode, so be sure to check out the show
Speaker:notes and transcript should you need them.
Speaker:Good morning, Andreas.
Speaker:Thank you for joining us today.
Speaker:I know we're going to have a pretty deep dive into Ozone shortly, but before we
Speaker:sort of get that far into proceedings, would you just like to introduce yourself,
Speaker:who you are, what you do, et cetera?
Speaker:Well, thanks Rob for having me.
Speaker:It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker:So my name is Andreas Goddeeris.
Speaker:I am from Belgium, from the Flemish part, the north part of, uh, of Belgium.
Speaker:So I'm, uh, graduated as a general practitioner.
Speaker:I'm also emergency physician.
Speaker:I worked 15 years on the emergency in the emergency room.
Speaker:I also studied sports medicine and functional medicine.
Speaker:And three years ago, I moved to Ibiza with my wife and two daughters to
Speaker:start, uh, working in a practice here.
Speaker:In Ibiza, where I mainly focus on, well, general practitioner, uh, and
Speaker:functional medicine and ozone therapy.
Speaker:That's amazing.
Speaker:I mean, that, that's quite the, the move from Belgium to Ibiza, I assume
Speaker:the sunshine was the major drawcard.
Speaker:Was it?
Speaker:Yeah, that's, uh, indeed, uh, a major one.
Speaker:The climate here is fantastic.
Speaker:It's almost always sunny and that does a lot to a human being.
Speaker:And if you see the blue sky instead of the grey uh, Sky and rain.
Speaker:So yeah, that's that's a big thing.
Speaker:So that's it's great to be here.
Speaker:Yeah No, I can definitely attest to that.
Speaker:No, I'm sure I'm actually quite envious.
Speaker:It's I love the UK It's it's it's definitely home.
Speaker:But at this time of year, we're recording on October now You sort of open the
Speaker:curtains and it is just grey and you know It doesn't really do much for your
Speaker:state of mind when you're constantly Sort of surrounded by well, no sunlight
Speaker:and We can definitely get into the melanocortican pathway and melanopsin
Speaker:and sunlight at some stage, but maybe not just yet, but yeah, sunlight
Speaker:is, is, is important, definitely.
Speaker:And um, specifically ozone, what drew you to ozone?
Speaker:I mean, I, and you, you mentioned that you're a functional
Speaker:medicine practitioner, but.
Speaker:Um, you seem to have found your, your group, so to speak, specifically
Speaker:with ozone, what's, what got you specifically into ozone?
Speaker:Why were you drawn to this methodology, say more so than maybe taking a gut
Speaker:centric approach or an immune centric approach like maybe other physicians do?
Speaker:Well, like in the beginning was when I was graduated, as I mentioned, I worked
Speaker:15 years on the emergency department.
Speaker:And so in the beginning I just did that.
Speaker:So I was very in the classical system.
Speaker:And I noticed that we can do a lot of things.
Speaker:It's good that the classical system exists, that, uh, medication exists,
Speaker:but it's mainly focuses on, uh, healing in a very advanced stage of sickness.
Speaker:And it does, it doesn't do anything preventive, like the acute stage.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Again, it's very good that it exists, that antibiotics exist, that we can do
Speaker:cardiac surgery and stuff like that.
Speaker:But more and more, I had the feeling I want to do more with what I do than just
Speaker:treating people who are already that sick.
Speaker:So yeah, I started looking and I came up to, in the world of functional medicine,
Speaker:where it's a lot more preventive.
Speaker:You can actually prevent of, of getting sick and it's, it's lifestyle medicine.
Speaker:And that's what I find so intriguing that just by adapting your lifestyle
Speaker:that you can prevent sickness.
Speaker:It's, it's, it's incredible.
Speaker:So I mainly focus on, on the typical things, food, movement, nutrition,
Speaker:uh, stress reduction, uh, mindsets.
Speaker:And those are like, for me, and, uh, you can add some stuff
Speaker:into that, like supplements.
Speaker:Other, uh, therapies, complementary therapies.
Speaker:There are a lot of complementary therapies.
Speaker:And for me, and say, because maybe also I'm a sports physician, I think the
Speaker:ozone therapy is very nice to work with because you can do a lot on a systemic
Speaker:level, but also on a local level.
Speaker:For example, people with osteoarthritis, you can do ozone injections
Speaker:directly in the, in the joint, or the knee, the ankle, the hip.
Speaker:And you can use it systemically.
Speaker:You can use intravenous treatment or rectal insufflation
Speaker:to have a systemic effect.
Speaker:So you can work with it on many domains and it's, it's for me, it's, it fits
Speaker:right into the way I want to practice medicine, uh, to help people and to make
Speaker:them feel better, to prevent sickness or to help them even better when they are
Speaker:sick, but in a way that they don't have the adverse effect of certain medications.
Speaker:And more to have a good effect in the longterm than just, ah, we're going
Speaker:to give you a medication without also like knowing what is the cause of the
Speaker:disease of what is really causing it.
Speaker:So that's for me fits perfectly in what I want to do and how I want
Speaker:to help people in my practice.
Speaker:Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker:Specifically regarding the use of ozone quickly before we continue in joints.
Speaker:Um, when you're injecting it into a joint, is that called prolotherapy?
Speaker:Am I correct,
Speaker:uh, prolotherapy
Speaker:or is that something separate?
Speaker:Is is one treatment you can do that's with, for example, prop
Speaker:cocaine, CH reel, those are, uh, ingredients that you can inject.
Speaker:And then you have the prolozone and that combines prolotherapy with ozone therapy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, uh, yeah, prolotherapy is it stimulates the healing, reduces
Speaker:inflammation, and that you can combine with ozone therapy.
Speaker:So you can also inject procaine, thromale into, for example, a joint.
Speaker:And after that, inject also the ozone.
Speaker:And that's the combination of prolotherapy and ozone therapy, which
Speaker:is also mixed in, in a word, prolozone.
Speaker:I got you.
Speaker:Definitely something we'll chat about in a minute.
Speaker:Before we continue, I'd just really like to sort of maybe delve into
Speaker:some of the history of ozone.
Speaker:I know this is something you're fairly well versed in, but when did
Speaker:ozone start finding its way into the sort of the modern medical system?
Speaker:Well, maybe not the modern medical system, but into functional health
Speaker:care or alternative health care.
Speaker:When did it sort of first make its foray into it?
Speaker:And, um, yeah, when we can go from there
Speaker:well, it's,
Speaker:it's ozone is actually already discovered in the 19th century.
Speaker:So it's, it's already long used for, for certain things.
Speaker:Uh, there already existed an ozone generator in the 19th century.
Speaker:And in the beginning of the 20th century, it was already used to treat, uh,
Speaker:like a dozen pathologies, pathologies.
Speaker:For example, during World War I, they used it to treat gangrene or to
Speaker:treat intoxications with mustard gas.
Speaker:So people were really treated with that.
Speaker:It was really a mainstream approach to, to treat infections and stuff like that.
Speaker:And then by the year 19,
Speaker:I didn't think there was, oh, sorry, sorry for interrupting.
Speaker:I was just going to say, I didn't actually think there was, uh, there was
Speaker:anything you can do about, uh, sarin gas poisoning or mustard gas poisoning.
Speaker:I thought it was fairly final.
Speaker:I think I remember the poem by Wilfred Owen, I think was Dulce et
Speaker:Decorum Est. It was a particularly unpleasant poem about soldiers being
Speaker:poisoned by sarin gas in the trenches.
Speaker:Sorry, anyway, um, that's surprising to me.
Speaker:I didn't
Speaker:It is, it is very difficult to treat, of course, and, uh, but in those days,
Speaker:they tried with the things they had.
Speaker:It was not the stage yet where, where modern medicine
Speaker:with drug therapy was used.
Speaker:So, but they had ozone in those days, so they used it.
Speaker:And in some cases, they could They had success with it, for example, to
Speaker:treat soldiers with severe infections at the feet or other infections.
Speaker:Well, ozone in high dose, it really kills bacteria, it kills viruses, so
Speaker:you can really treat people with that.
Speaker:So, but by the year 1929, there were already 114 pathologies who
Speaker:were treated with ozone therapy.
Speaker:And then in the in the year 1933, there was a big turnaround because then
Speaker:the American Medical Association, they signed a mandate with the government
Speaker:to actually eliminate and any medical treatment that's undermined or was
Speaker:deemed to be competitive to drug therapy.
Speaker:So that was really the rise of, of drug therapy at Big Pharma already started.
Speaker:So they signed a mandate with the government.
Speaker:And that was like, yeah, okay.
Speaker:The suppression of the, the complimentary, well, in those days, not complimentary,
Speaker:but, uh, for example, the suppression of ozone began and that's how it became
Speaker:a complimentary treatment or also known as an alternative treatment.
Speaker:It's not mainstream, but it.
Speaker:It will still continue to be used, but not in as high quantity as before.
Speaker:So, like you say, Big Pharma came and Big Pharma, again, it's good
Speaker:that medications exist, but of course they want to make a lot of money.
Speaker:And, um, for example, on ozone, uh, you, you, you cannot earn a lot of
Speaker:money because you cannot patent it.
Speaker:There's no, no, it is a gas that is in the environment and the atmosphere.
Speaker:So you cannot say, ah, I'm going to patent ozone and I'm going
Speaker:to make a medication of it.
Speaker:And then I can distribute that and earn a lot of money with it.
Speaker:So for big pharma, pharma, it is not very interesting.
Speaker:So, but it's, it's, it's been continued to used a lot, maybe not in Europe
Speaker:as much, but for example, in Russia, it states it kept on using a lot to
Speaker:treat infections and stuff like that.
Speaker:And nowadays, more and more, it comes up again, more to, to be used as a treatment.
Speaker:In private medicine, maybe not in public health system, but in private medicine,
Speaker:more and more people are using it, but because also they see the benefit of it.
Speaker:And there's also more and more studies that come out.
Speaker:People do.
Speaker:Case studies or bigger studies.
Speaker:Of course, you don't have with ozone therapy the big Million dollar
Speaker:costing studies that big pharma does because there's no money for that
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:but more and more you see that there are a lot of studies that's showing
Speaker:that ozone works for example in 2010 The International Scientific Committee
Speaker:on Ozone Therapy has been raised and that's in Spain by a Spanish guy and he
Speaker:has, yeah, made a committee to be sure that there's also like more protocols to
Speaker:follow because, of course, if something is not very good, possible to read
Speaker:about, everybody does a little bit what he wants and what he thinks is good.
Speaker:But since 2010, every five years, uh, so the, the ISCO makes a declaration and
Speaker:it's called the Declaration of Madrid.
Speaker:That's a big book where there are protocols, where there's, uh,
Speaker:references, clinical applications, and that's a good reference book for, for
Speaker:everybody who practice ozone therapy.
Speaker:And in that way, there can be more like unified therapies, uh, if you work with
Speaker:ozone protocols and stuff like that.
Speaker:That's it.
Speaker:There's a good reference and, and in that book, there are so many
Speaker:articles, uh, on ozone therapy.
Speaker:It's quite amazing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And more and more it's, if, if because of that, it's, it can be seen also as a,
Speaker:as a real complimentary treatment that is not like only alternative in my eyes,
Speaker:of course, but, uh, but, uh, I hope that one day that ozone therapy will be used
Speaker:again in, in classical system, because maybe In the future, there will be, for
Speaker:example, for antibiotics, my opinion is that in maybe some decades that
Speaker:antibiotics will not function as good as now because there's a lot of resistance.
Speaker:Bacterias become resistant, there are already a lot of multi resistant
Speaker:bacterias that cannot be treated.
Speaker:And then ozone can be a very good alternative to, to use for, uh,
Speaker:people who are infected and who do not respond on antibiotics.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That would be fantastic.
Speaker:But, uh, but yeah, I don't have a mirror ball, so, uh, I cannot predict the future,
Speaker:but let's hope that it, uh, it will come.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, it's definitely made a resurgence of late.
Speaker:I think specifically in the, again, the functional medicine sphere and
Speaker:the podcast sphere, I think it's just.
Speaker:It's becoming more well known by a lot of people and especially a lot of individuals
Speaker:who have got these retractable, sort of, should we say, just to stay safe,
Speaker:post viral fatigue types of issues.
Speaker:We won't be saying the C word in case we get moaned at.
Speaker:But, um, yeah, it's definitely made a resurgence of late.
Speaker:Sort of looking at the mechanics of it then.
Speaker:What is ozone actually doing?
Speaker:I know it has a hormetic effect in the body.
Speaker:But beyond that, mechanistically, how is it treating individuals with
Speaker:such a wide variety of conditions?
Speaker:Uh, it seems to be effective in everything from bacterial infections
Speaker:to viral infections to, to gut issues.
Speaker:And as you pointed out earlier too, issues that are more systemic and
Speaker:sort of almost inflammatory in nature.
Speaker:So your immune conditions like arthritis and such.
Speaker:How does it, how does this sort of fairly, is innocuous the right word,
Speaker:little molecule have such a wide, uh, sort of gamut of, um, use cases?
Speaker:Well, so if, if ozone therapy, if we speak of a ozone therapy, so we
Speaker:use the ozone gas and to, to have a beneficial effect on the body.
Speaker:So how do we make that?
Speaker:And that's, that's quite important that to say that ozone is made from oxygen.
Speaker:So you need an oxygen bottle, you need an ozone generator, and then there's
Speaker:made a mixture of ozone and oxygen.
Speaker:So there's always, it's always a mixture that is administered.
Speaker:And ozone being a combination of three oxygen molecules.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Ozone is.
Speaker:Like if you speak, if you speak of, of ozone, it's O3 and uh, oxygen is O2.
Speaker:So ozone is a, a gas, it, it actually comes from the name ozein.
Speaker:That's a Greek word.
Speaker:And that means to smell because it has a very, a very penetrant, uh, odor.
Speaker:It's, if you smell it, you immediately, oh, what's that?
Speaker:What's that smell?
Speaker:So ozone comes from that work, uh, words.
Speaker:And it's also.
Speaker:For example, when lightning strikes on the earth, it's, it, ozone is formed, right?
Speaker:It's also formed when, uh, in certain laser printers, yeah?
Speaker:So that's why they are, uh, in most cases equipped with active, uh, coal filters,
Speaker:because if ozone comes in the environment, It's not good for the airways.
Speaker:That's why it has a little bit of a negative people in most
Speaker:of the connotations because for example, if there's a lot of
Speaker:smog, it's a byproduct of smog.
Speaker:If there's a lot of pollution, very hot weather, ozone is also formed.
Speaker:And then they say to people who have airways who are not good, like asthma.
Speaker:COPD, uh, to stay inside.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:. Because if you inhale ozone, it's not good for the airways.
Speaker:And the reason for that is that ozone, uh, that the, the cells on the airway
Speaker:tract are not equipped with antioxidants.
Speaker:Uh, that can, uh, because ozone is very, very oxidative substance.
Speaker:And that's, uh, exactly what it does in the body.
Speaker:So when you, when you inject it in the body.
Speaker:The ozone will interact with certain substances.
Speaker:For example, the polyunsaturated fatty acids.
Speaker:And the interaction of ozone with, for example, the lipids
Speaker:of polyunsaturated fatty acids, it makes an oxidative reaction.
Speaker:And that makes that in the body, reactive oxygen species are formed.
Speaker:Like hydrogen peroxide, superoxide, hydroxyl.
Speaker:And these have a very precise effect on immune cells, on red
Speaker:blood cells, on the bone marrow.
Speaker:And that's actually what the ozone does.
Speaker:What also has formed are LOPs, and those are lipid oxidative products.
Speaker:And these are lipids that are oxidated.
Speaker:And the difference between the reaction oxygen species and the LOPs
Speaker:are that the reactive oxygen species are, have a very short half life.
Speaker:So they are formed and they do their, they do their work and they disappear.
Speaker:And the LOPs, they have, they tend to accumulate.
Speaker:And that's why.
Speaker:If ozone therapy is administered, uh, frequently.
Speaker:So these, uh, LOPs they tend to accumulate and have better
Speaker:and better effect on the body.
Speaker:And the, the effect exactly is a hormesis effect.
Speaker:And it's like you said at the beginning.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:It's, it's, it's all about the dose and hormesis is like in medicine is the
Speaker:phenomenon that substance in high dose can cause damage to the body, but in low
Speaker:dose it can have very positive effects.
Speaker:And that's the same with ozone.
Speaker:You can compare it with, for example, if somebody does weight
Speaker:training and he has a certain weight.
Speaker:He has to lift with his muscle.
Speaker:If he does, if he uses the right weight, the muscle will, will get better.
Speaker:And we'll say, okay, I have to react better to that
Speaker:step on adaptional reaction.
Speaker:If you use from the beginning, for example, too heavy weights, you can
Speaker:damage the muscle and That extends that there's more damage than healing
Speaker:and that your muscle is going down or your tendon is, is, will be broken down
Speaker:and there's more damage than healing.
Speaker:So it's a hormosis effect of the ozone therapy that is very important.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Just to touch on something very quickly, you mentioned that when ozone
Speaker:enters the blood, it, it binds to, uh, was it polyunsaturated fatty acids?
Speaker:Was that correct?
Speaker:Would that not then produce oxidized unsaturated fatty acids, which are
Speaker:potentially fairly atherosclerogenic?
Speaker:There's obviously a lot being said in the sort of the health
Speaker:sphere and the diet sphere at the moment about these unstable fats.
Speaker:Uh, so not necessarily your saturated fats, but your polyunsaturated
Speaker:fats becoming damaged and ending up as a sort of a peroxide as such.
Speaker:Is ozone then sort of damaging those fats to the extent where they are
Speaker:then becoming damaged, uh, damaging to epithelial or anything in that
Speaker:extent, or is it more transient?
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:it's a transient effect.
Speaker:It's a very short burst that, that is given to the body, which, and that's the
Speaker:hormosis effect again, or hormesis effect.
Speaker:If you, and that's the depend on the doses.
Speaker:If you give a very high dose, then you can have more damage than the short transient
Speaker:effect of the reactive oxygen species.
Speaker:And that is why, if you give it too high dose, you can give more damage.
Speaker:Uh, so with ozone therapy, we also, we always start low, we see what reaction
Speaker:is of the body and then we can move up, but we, it's better not to go too high
Speaker:because then you can cause damage also.
Speaker:So I stand, I tend to stay at low dose, see what happens.
Speaker:And if, if a patient reacts good, then I'm not going to higher
Speaker:dose more and more and more.
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:In ozone therapy, it's not the higher, the better.
Speaker:It's, you find the sweet spot and there you stay most, most of the
Speaker:times, or you, you go down a little bit even, but you always see what the
Speaker:reaction is of the, of the patient.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So it's acting very much like a traditional antioxidant would, uh, would,
Speaker:it's got a sort of direct on target effects and then it's also sort of.
Speaker:I assume upregulating a number of endogenous antioxidant mechanisms
Speaker:like NRF2, for example, that then produce a number of other
Speaker:antioxidants, your catalases, etc.
Speaker:Beyond that, though, how's it affecting viruses?
Speaker:For example, I know it's, as I mentioned earlier, it's oftentimes used in In
Speaker:viruses like EBV, Epstein Barr, and cyclomega, uh, CMV, what is it doing
Speaker:to those viruses that is making it so effective at treating them when When
Speaker:other sort of modalities oftentimes fail.
Speaker:Well, that's so you have if we talk about ozone therapy You have the fast
Speaker:effects and the slow effects and the effect on the immune system is quite
Speaker:one of the fast effects And so what happens when you administer ozone it
Speaker:has an influence on the immune cells and so A lot of people think, ah,
Speaker:there's ozone in my body, the ozone will destroy the viruses or the bacterias
Speaker:in the body, that's not the case.
Speaker:So, if you do an external treatment with ozone, for example, limb bagging, that's
Speaker:when you have a, for example, a wound.
Speaker:At the exterior side of the body, you can do limb bagging, that's
Speaker:with a plastic bag over the foot.
Speaker:You administer ozone in very high dose, and then the ozone has a direct
Speaker:killing effect on the bacterias.
Speaker:But in the body, it's a completely different effect.
Speaker:It doesn't actually kill viruses or bacterias instantly, directly.
Speaker:But it has an effect on the immune system, which, uh, so it has affected
Speaker:the reactive oxygen species, had an effect on the immune cells and
Speaker:it improves the cytokine delivery.
Speaker:For example, interleukin, interferon alpha, and that will have the
Speaker:effect on the immune system, so the immune system can combat the
Speaker:virus or the bacterias much better.
Speaker:And so that's the effect on the immune system, not directly on the virus because
Speaker:the ozone will not kill the virus, but your own immune system will do that.
Speaker:And then I assume it's doing the same thing in these
Speaker:autoimmune conditions as well.
Speaker:It's helping to modulate the Immune system activity to
Speaker:potentially quell inflammation.
Speaker:Is that
Speaker:correct?
Speaker:That's correct.
Speaker:So you can use it for, uh, many types of infection, inflammatory
Speaker:diseases, autoimmune diseases.
Speaker:So it has actually a modulating effect on the immune system.
Speaker:And in that way, it's, it improves your own body's reaction to an infection.
Speaker:So it can be used just also to prevent infection, people who use ozone and in the
Speaker:case for longevity, uh, prophylactically, you can use ozone to, to, to have a better
Speaker:immune system and to, if you're in contact with a virus or bacteria, you will be,
Speaker:you won't get sick so fast or you won't get sick so bad, or you just heal faster.
Speaker:Okay, and what do you think about, I suppose, maybe going more
Speaker:down the gut health route now?
Speaker:What do you think about the use of ozone helping to combat infections
Speaker:that are maybe wrapped up in biofilms?
Speaker:Do you think ozone is effective in that respect?
Speaker:Uh, obviously biofilms are generally speaking very hard to treat, but does
Speaker:ozone have any clinical efficacy there do you think, uh, for these sort of,
Speaker:again, these treatment resistant issues that just don't seem to want to go away?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:you can always try it to, you can never say, ah, we're going to use ozone
Speaker:therapy and there's a hundred percent chance that an infection will go away.
Speaker:But you don't have any adverse effects.
Speaker:You don't have any downsides.
Speaker:So why not try it?
Speaker:And in most cases, people respond very good.
Speaker:Of course we have the effect on the immune system.
Speaker:We also have effect, have effect of, for example, red blood cell system.
Speaker:So red blood cells can easily capture oxygen, deliver it more
Speaker:easily to the, to the tissues.
Speaker:So that also has an effect.
Speaker:And so that's like the, the, the fast effects.
Speaker:Maybe there's a lot of things we don't know yet what it actually does, but
Speaker:we see when we, we start with ozone therapy, people get better and we know
Speaker:certain kinds of things, how it works, but maybe not everything, but it does a
Speaker:lot of good things and you don't have the downsizes of, of, uh, normal drug therapy.
Speaker:Uh, in some cases, like for example, cortisone treatments and the long run.
Speaker:You have a lot of down, uh,
Speaker:damaged cartilage yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Speaking of side effects, I was just going to ask about things
Speaker:like Herxheimer's reactions.
Speaker:I assume you're going to get a fairly sort of traditional die off reaction
Speaker:with ozone as you would with any other, well, treatment option when you're
Speaker:trying to rid the body of an infection.
Speaker:Are these, again, common with ozone, maybe less so than other, than other,
Speaker:uh, therapies or, or is it sort of much of a much less do you think?
Speaker:Well, they, they happen.
Speaker:I've, I've seen it frequently that somebody after an ozone treatment lets
Speaker:me know I'm feeling a little bit fluish.
Speaker:I have some muscle pain, a little bit fever.
Speaker:It's, it's, it happens.
Speaker:It's like you say, a Herxheimer reaction.
Speaker:We don't actually know a hundred percent how that comes, but
Speaker:for me, it's, it's a good sign.
Speaker:It means that the immune system is reacting, something's happening
Speaker:and it's a transient effect that.
Speaker:in most cases, passes after 24 hours.
Speaker:And then again, it's necessary to follow the patient very good and maybe
Speaker:next time to give a lower dose, uh, because there was a Herxheimer reaction.
Speaker:But it's not a bad thing.
Speaker:And actually that's, yeah, the only adverse effect that can happen,
Speaker:that the patient feels like for 24 hours or less, or a little
Speaker:bit more, a little bit less good.
Speaker:But again, that's transient and afterwards, in most cases,
Speaker:patients feel better again.
Speaker:I know that there are a number of, uh, sort of contraindications
Speaker:to ozone therapy, including things like a G6PD deficiency.
Speaker:Could you, could you just touch on that quickly and sort of maybe we can just talk
Speaker:about who should be careful with ozone?
Speaker:Because, yeah, again, I don't think it's been tested in pregnancy.
Speaker:And I believe there's a, again, another contraindication with
Speaker:people who have hypothyroidism.
Speaker:Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker:So, so a G6PD deficiency, it's a deficiency of a
Speaker:certain enzyme that's Exists.
Speaker:So it's, it's mainly with the male population.
Speaker:It's rare among the North European population.
Speaker:Uh, it's mainly in African and Asian populations.
Speaker:So if I would have an African patient or an Asian person, I would test But
Speaker:in most other patient person, I don't test because the deficiency in most
Speaker:cases gives anemia and most people know that they have that some, some don't.
Speaker:And so it's, it's important to know a little bit when to test or not to test,
Speaker:or if you see that a patient, if you have.
Speaker:Started to treat with ozone and you see that he doesn't respond.
Speaker:Well, then you can test and see okay Is there a G6PD deficiency or not?
Speaker:And then you can still test if it's positive Okay, then, you know he
Speaker:this person is not suited to have ozone therapy Again with pregnancy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Do we have to test every?
Speaker:Woman who comes to the practice.
Speaker:I don't think so, but it's, it's, uh, you can, you can ask it of course,
Speaker:but I had at one time that I treated, uh, a woman, uh, and afterwards she
Speaker:had some, some, uh, sessions and afterwards she said, I'm pregnant.
Speaker:It was, uh, not planned.
Speaker:So that happens, but again, it's not a big problem.
Speaker:It's something that will not damage.
Speaker:But I stopped the treatments, of course, because one of the problems is that
Speaker:with pregnancy, you don't have a lot of studies, and so you have to be careful.
Speaker:Again, with hyperthyroidism okay.
Speaker:So most people who have that, they know that and they know if
Speaker:they follow a certain treatment that they have to mention that.
Speaker:So I always ask her to take medications, things like that.
Speaker:And if they would have hyperthyroidism then I would see it at the
Speaker:medication that they take.
Speaker:But again, it's being noticed if it's necessary, but it's rarely
Speaker:that there are contraindications.
Speaker:Okay, just to touch on the hypothyroidism side of it again, do you think that
Speaker:the ozone is sort of improving the mitochondrial function around the
Speaker:thyroid or is it improving thyroid production to the point where it can
Speaker:then exacerbate the condition by sort of getting rid of potentially the
Speaker:underlying inflammation that is maybe causing something like Graves disease?
Speaker:Or is it sort of more of a direct interaction with the thyroid itself?
Speaker:Do you know?
Speaker:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker:I don't exactly know the mechanism, but it's tends to stimulate even the, the
Speaker:making of T3 and T4, the thyroid hormones.
Speaker:So, but the exact mechanism that's, I don't know, but if you, ozone
Speaker:stimulates a little bit, the, the, the, the making of the thyroid hormone.
Speaker:So if you're already have hyperthyroidism so it's better not to
Speaker:stimulate that too much, of course.
Speaker:Of course.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And just as, as an aside, I think G6PD, we'll hopefully get that right
Speaker:at some point between the two of us.
Speaker:That's also a test that's commonly done in people undergoing
Speaker:high dose vitamin C therapy.
Speaker:Is that correct?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's also, there can be a problem if you do high dose vitamin
Speaker:C. That can also be a problem.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And then sort of moving into sort of use cases.
Speaker:I know you mentioned, I'd love to chat about how ozone can be sort of
Speaker:utilized to support athletic endeavors.
Speaker:Do you get a lot of athletes in your, in your practice?
Speaker:And are you using ozone to help them to recover and to improve their
Speaker:performance in their, in their output, uh, in competition and in the gym?
Speaker:I don't have professional athletes, but I have.
Speaker:More amateur athletes who do that because yeah, it can improve you stimulate
Speaker:your ATP production you stimulate your oxygenation your Tissue oxygenation
Speaker:you can you have left that tendency to get sick So it's actually very
Speaker:good to do that as a complementary treatment, of course, and when you talk
Speaker:about professional athletes and you have to be careful, but because ozone
Speaker:therapy is is considered as doping but
Speaker:Yes
Speaker:So, but the reason therefore it's
Speaker:unbelievable
Speaker:is not because the, because the doping agency, the WADA uh, the world Anti-Doping
Speaker:Agency is, is a classical system.
Speaker:So in their eyes, they don't say ozone works, but they say,
Speaker:okay, do a blood extraction.
Speaker:Uh, you ozone, uh, ozonate the blood and you infuse it again.
Speaker:So it's a, a, a form of blood doping.
Speaker:You extract blood.
Speaker:Yeah, and you put it back.
Speaker:So that's for them blood doping.
Speaker:But the way I use, uh, ozone therapy, I use it as a IV saline infusion.
Speaker:So I, uh, ozonate in, uh, a saline
Speaker:infusion,
Speaker:uh, saline solution, and then I infuse it afterwards.
Speaker:So actually I don't extract blood and I don't give it back.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Normally, the WADA could not say that is, uh, a doping because if
Speaker:they would say, ah, that's doping, then they would actually say,
Speaker:ah, ozone therapy has an effect.
Speaker:And they don't want to do that because they don't acknowledge
Speaker:that as a, as a, as a treatment.
Speaker:That's interesting.
Speaker:That's a nice segue into sort of discussing how ozone is administered.
Speaker:I know there are a number of ways, uh, I think we already touched on it
Speaker:previously limb bagging, et cetera.
Speaker:But you get various different form, you'll see different types
Speaker:of ozone practices advertised.
Speaker:Uh, sort of single infusions, 10 pass, five pass, et cetera.
Speaker:I assume the five pass would technically be illegal because it's
Speaker:from my understanding infusing the blood extracorporeally, however
Speaker:you say that word, and then reintroducing it back into the body.
Speaker:How do you, what do you think of these various ways of utilizing ozone and
Speaker:which is your preferred, um, sort of.
Speaker:Yeah, methodology thereof.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, so that's the major orthohemotherapy.
Speaker:That's the most well known form of ozone therapy.
Speaker:So you extract blood, you ozonate it, and you infuse it again.
Speaker:And then you have, like you say, the 5 pass, the 10 pass.
Speaker:Well, you can do a lot with those things.
Speaker:But, like I said before, we have the hormesis effect.
Speaker:And for me, it's not the higher the dose, the better.
Speaker:Because with a 10 pass, you really give a high dose.
Speaker:And that, in my eyes, is not always the best treatment.
Speaker:Some people can also have damage from that.
Speaker:So, I tend to use a lower dose.
Speaker:And go up as we go along and see how the patient goes.
Speaker:And at a certain time, I don't, I don't hire the dose anymore.
Speaker:Uh, but again, in every treatment there are opinions and different
Speaker:ways of how to look at it.
Speaker:Uh, but my way is low dose and start low and go, go slow.
Speaker:That's my, my, uh, my tendency.
Speaker:But again, other practitioners will say, Ah, no, I have the, I do the 10 pass.
Speaker:I have very good results.
Speaker:I only do that.
Speaker:Okay, that's, uh, everybody is entitled to an opinion, but
Speaker:that's not what I tend to do.
Speaker:I rather go slow and start low.
Speaker:That's, that's how I do it.
Speaker:Because I don't want to bring damage to the, to the patient.
Speaker:Yeah, and there's obviously, uh, a greater likelihood of developing
Speaker:things like Herxhormus as a result of a, of a, of a high dose.
Speaker:I think that's, that's just common sense and it should be, uh, it almost doesn't
Speaker:need to be said, but obviously we do have to say that you should always sort of
Speaker:start with the lowest effective dose of any treatment option and then sort of move
Speaker:forwards to the next most effective dose.
Speaker:When you're sort of dealing with an ozone treatment protocol,
Speaker:are you utilizing anything post treatment to sort of maybe help?
Speaker:uh, quell some of the inflammatory response.
Speaker:I mean, I've seen that advertised quite frequently.
Speaker:Practitioners will provide ozone therapy and then utilize something
Speaker:to help maybe blunt the excessive oxidative stress component thereof.
Speaker:I'm in two minds about that.
Speaker:I think obviously it may be beneficial to the, the patient in terms of, um,
Speaker:them not feeling as bad afterwards, but I assume you also want that immune system
Speaker:response to an extent, and if you're sort of going to drive too many antioxidants
Speaker:into them post procedure, you might.
Speaker:Decrease some of the benefits of that therapy.
Speaker:Do you think that's the case or is it not really?
Speaker:Well, I I never Uh when I administer ozone therapy I'm not going to combine it with
Speaker:for example vitamin c infusions or even b vitamins magnesium I never combine it
Speaker:why also we don't know for 100 percent yet What it what the the ozone does if you
Speaker:infuse also nutrients like magnesium for the same You get, uh, all the magnesium
Speaker:that you inject will be magnesium oxide, and that's not the best form of magnesium.
Speaker:So I never combine it.
Speaker:I know, again, there are practitioners who do it, but I don't, because
Speaker:we don't know a hundred percent yet what, what happens after that.
Speaker:So that's not my way to do it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I mean, that's, that's, that's a really good thought.
Speaker:You would have didn't think about that.
Speaker:But yeah, if you sort of add magnesium and oxygen together, you're going
Speaker:to end up with a, another sort of oxidative distressor in the body.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So, you know, a fan of running concurrent IV therapies.
Speaker:What about other sorts of therapies that you can tack on other ways of sort
Speaker:of improving mitochondrial production and, and health things like methylene
Speaker:blue and those sorts of agents.
Speaker:Are you finding those particular products, supplements, treatment
Speaker:options effective in your practice.
Speaker:Do you use them or if I was to rephrase what other sort of more interesting,
Speaker:should we say, uh, molecules are you using at the moment in your patients?
Speaker:For injection, you mean then, or
Speaker:just sort of, uh, alongside ozone as well, have you sort of looked
Speaker:into methylene blue potentially as a electron donor or, uh, any of
Speaker:these other molecules that I don't
Speaker:use.
Speaker:But what I do do is I give magnesium infusions, vitamin D, glutathione, I do
Speaker:them, but never At the same time, but what I sometimes do is I do a series of
Speaker:ozone injections and or ozone sessions and then I leave one week between them or
Speaker:48 hours and then I can do an infusion or an injection with for example magnesium
Speaker:and B vitamins That's something I do but not methylene blue that I don't
Speaker:I don't have any knowledge about it.
Speaker:Also.
Speaker:I never did extra things with that so that I cannot respond to.
Speaker:No, that's fine.
Speaker:No, it's a, it's a fascinating little molecule.
Speaker:It seems to be able to act as a direct electron donor and bypass a number of
Speaker:the complexes in the mitochondrial, uh, in the electrons onto the chain.
Speaker:And by doing so, if there's a blockage in potentially one of those.
Speaker:Those complexes, it can actually bypass that and then get straight
Speaker:into the, into the mitochondria and start producing NAD that way.
Speaker:Yeah, no, it's, it seems to work quite effectively for people who have sort of.
Speaker:Again, sort of recalcitrant fatigue and energy issues.
Speaker:Then just going back to your practice, I always find this fascinating to ask,
Speaker:but how generally do you treat patients?
Speaker:What's your flavor of functional medicine?
Speaker:Aside from ozone, obviously a lot of practitioners who are in the
Speaker:functional space will obviously take a very GI heavy approach to medicine.
Speaker:Start off with trying to treat the gut before anything else, whereas
Speaker:others sort of start to look at it more from a nervous system standpoint.
Speaker:How are you treating patients in your practice who are sort of otherwise
Speaker:in ill health and have these sort of more long term chronic infections?
Speaker:Well, I always like to look at five things.
Speaker:And that's, uh, first of all, What is the nutrition like?
Speaker:What do they eat?
Speaker:How is their gut health?
Speaker:Do they take supplements or not?
Speaker:That's a very big one because if you have a deficiency in something,
Speaker:that has its effects on the body.
Speaker:What you eat is so important.
Speaker:Do they get enough fiber, fruits, vegetables?
Speaker:Do they follow certain diets?
Speaker:And how is the gut health?
Speaker:And, uh, in those cases, uh, sometimes probiotics, prebiotics, uh, can, can help.
Speaker:So that's a major one.
Speaker:And then I also look at, uh, movement or sports, uh, sleep.
Speaker:That's the third one.
Speaker:Stress is a big, a very big one.
Speaker:A lot of people are stressed and you can have stress, but if it's too big amount
Speaker:of stress or too long, it has an effect.
Speaker:And of course you don't have a treatment for stress and say
Speaker:that can give a pill for that.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:In a lot of cases, it's a part of the treatment, just not.
Speaker:Just to talk about it and say, okay, can you do something about that?
Speaker:And most people know that, but it's, uh, they have difficulties to
Speaker:lower their stress level, but it's something that has to be always.
Speaker:And then the mindset is a fifth one.
Speaker:How, how, how do the people, how do people stand in life?
Speaker:Are they positive, negative?
Speaker:Do they know where they want to go?
Speaker:Do they have a meaning in life?
Speaker:Things like that.
Speaker:It's, it's, it's.
Speaker:It's so important if you don't have that, then that's also a factor in disease.
Speaker:So I tend to combine all those kinds of things.
Speaker:I ask a lot of questions.
Speaker:People talk a lot and yeah, my opinion is if in those five domains, there's a good
Speaker:balance that in most cases everything goes well, but if there's a disbalance
Speaker:in one or more of those five pillars.
Speaker:then you can work on those kind of things and you can find your balance again
Speaker:and then most cases things get better.
Speaker:Yeah, no, the body is amazing.
Speaker:It's sort of finding homeostasis and auto regulating itself as a result of
Speaker:just dealing with the basics, which I think is oftentimes overlooked,
Speaker:especially from a stress component.
Speaker:I don't think people understand that that stress is such a major trigger for the
Speaker:immune system, uh, by sort of obviously upregulating your, your catecholamines and
Speaker:your other stress hormones like cortisol.
Speaker:Uh, which then feeds back directly into all of these inflammatory processes
Speaker:that then degrade the function of the nervous of the immune system and allow
Speaker:these infections to then take root.
Speaker:It's something that I definitely feel is overlooked for the most part in.
Speaker:In most, uh, functional medicine practices, uh, yours
Speaker:seems to be an exception.
Speaker:Well, I try, but it takes a lot of
Speaker:time.
Speaker:You have to talk a lot.
Speaker:You have to take your time.
Speaker:And I try to do that because it's, it's really important, but in most cases
Speaker:it's, it's very busy and then time is not taken to, to, to have a decent anamnesis.
Speaker:And, uh, but I, I, I, Continue to try to do that because it's so important.
Speaker:Yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker:And I think a large sort of part of the problem is, is that people have
Speaker:always been stigmatized and believing that's therapy and that it's not just.
Speaker:You, you're, you're a doctor, you're, they're there for a pill for a
Speaker:solution that doesn't require effort, maybe that they're just there for
Speaker:you to sort of fix them by means that they don't necessarily require
Speaker:a lot of input and effort from them.
Speaker:Um, I think it's, it's very easy to look at these problems that are maybe viral or
Speaker:chronic in nature and say, well, I just want a solution that involves needle in my
Speaker:arm or a handful of pills every morning.
Speaker:Whereas, um, unless you're dealing with the underlying as we've.
Speaker:Said a few times now, sort of psychological, you're never really going
Speaker:to sort of solve the underlying issue.
Speaker:It's super important.
Speaker:And, uh, sometimes I, like I'm a doctor, it's like you say, uh, we
Speaker:are learned to, to give medication.
Speaker:Uh, and that's what a lot of doctors, if there's a patient coming to the,
Speaker:to the clinic and they, they don't give a pill, they don't feel good.
Speaker:Because it's like they didn't do anything, but a conversation of 30 minutes can do,
Speaker:uh, a wonder with a patient who is just more at ease, who knows, oh, there's
Speaker:nothing serious, but I have to work on my lifestyle and it will get better,
Speaker:and that is a treatment in its own.
Speaker:But for a lot of doctors, they don't feel good about that because
Speaker:they didn't prescribe something.
Speaker:And that's something that is not correct in, in the way
Speaker:medicine is practiced nowadays.
Speaker:It's, you have to, you have to, you have a patient, he comes, you
Speaker:have to give a pill and voila.
Speaker:And I did my job.
Speaker:But it's, it's not always the best solution for something.
Speaker:No, well, I think to a large extent it is the fault of the system.
Speaker:I mean, doctors, we've talked about this previously on the podcast, but I think
Speaker:doctors oftentimes get thrown in the bus for saying that they are only willing to,
Speaker:to hand out pills, to hand out medication.
Speaker:But in a system where you are basically trained as a pharmacologist, sort
Speaker:of almost a clinical pharmacologist, you, you, you're taught what a drug
Speaker:does, what symptoms it links up to and, and how to use that drug.
Speaker:You're not always taught sort of basic, uh, functional medicine practices.
Speaker:And I think a lot of patients and again, doctors alike, uh, obviously do miss that.
Speaker:But I think patients oftentimes may be.
Speaker:Get inpatient with physicians when it's not necessarily the physician's
Speaker:fault, I should say, because they just haven't been trained in that way, uh,
Speaker:unless they sort of furthered their education in a functional aspect.
Speaker:So, yeah, it is, it is definitely, there's two sides to that coin.
Speaker:I'd just like to go back to ozone quickly.
Speaker:Uh, it's something that sort of sprung to mind is that I've started to see a lot
Speaker:of people utilizing ozone, ozone at home.
Speaker:Uh, they're not necessarily running just as sort of a direct ozone IV.
Speaker:I don't think that would be considered, uh, safe.
Speaker:Um, even if you, uh, do have a propensity to stick needles into yourself, but what
Speaker:sort of, but again, there are various ways you can do it that I'm aware of.
Speaker:So, uh, I think rectal insulfation with ozone and those
Speaker:sorts of treatment options.
Speaker:Um, do you sort of ever work with people on that front?
Speaker:Maybe people who just sort of come to your practice.
Speaker:Occasionally, do you ever sort of provide them with ozone bags
Speaker:or anything in that respect?
Speaker:Or is that not something you generally recommend?
Speaker:Well, I've
Speaker:never had patients who asked me to, to supply them with, with ozone filled
Speaker:bags to do rectal sufflation at home.
Speaker:I do it in the practice.
Speaker:Because it's, it's not always easy to get all the materials.
Speaker:So at home, you have to have an ozone generator and you have to have oxygen
Speaker:and it has to be pure oxygen, 99.
Speaker:9 pure oxygen.
Speaker:Some people use an, uh, an oxygen concentrator, but the problem is that
Speaker:you don't have pure oxygen and then.
Speaker:Again, you can have the problem with the dosage.
Speaker:And if you don't know exactly how much oxygen is going in your
Speaker:ozone generator, you can never be sure about the exact dosage.
Speaker:So if you do it at home, you have to have the correct material.
Speaker:But it's like you say, an ozone insufflation is very easily to do at home.
Speaker:You just need a rectal probe and some syringes or a bag and you can do it.
Speaker:And actually rectal encephalation has 80 percent of the effect
Speaker:of an intravenous treatment.
Speaker:So it's a very good treatment to do at home or with people who,
Speaker:for example, also in the practice who are difficult to puncture.
Speaker:With an IV it's difficult and to do always an IV again, you
Speaker:can do rectal insufflation.
Speaker:Uh, and at home there are other things you can use, ozonated
Speaker:oil, you can use a steam sauna.
Speaker:You can also even do, uh, ear insufflation, vaginal insufflation is
Speaker:also things that all can be done at home.
Speaker:But again, you have to have the correct material and you have to
Speaker:know what, what the dosages are that you have to treat yourself with.
Speaker:So that's important if you don't know that.
Speaker:Then you're freestyling a little bit and then it can be dangerous again.
Speaker:Yeah, just a bit.
Speaker:And from a rectal standpoint, if you are inserting large quantities of
Speaker:ozone into the colon, is there no sort of issue surrounding it creating gut
Speaker:dysbiosis or potentially killing off good bacteria further upstream of the
Speaker:colon, uh, in the small intestine, the gut, et cetera, or from that
Speaker:aspect, is it a pretty safe therapy?
Speaker:Again, so, so if you give very high doses of ozone, it will have a
Speaker:bacteriostatic or a virostatic effect.
Speaker:So you kill bacteria or viruses, but if you would administer a very
Speaker:high doses into your colon, you will also damage your, your colon
Speaker:cells, the cells in your intestines.
Speaker:So I would not do that.
Speaker:The effects again, um, On the colon is more the modulating
Speaker:effects on immune system.
Speaker:It has also a local effect on the microbiome, but not that you
Speaker:really kill certain bacterias, but it has a modulating effect again.
Speaker:So also when doing insufflation rectally, I would not go in the high,
Speaker:high doses like you do, for example, with limb bagging or, uh, nasal
Speaker:insufflation, for example, with somebody with sinusitis, then you can do that.
Speaker:It's a short, uh, burst and that can have a good effect.
Speaker:So if somebody does want to do it at home, it's, uh, it's
Speaker:definitely a learning curve.
Speaker:And obviously you would suggest that they work with a practitioner first
Speaker:to at least get an idea of how they're going to react to this sort of treatment.
Speaker:Are there sort of any best practices that people can, uh, use to utilize
Speaker:these sorts of therapies at home, just generally, or is it something you would
Speaker:just, again, recommend off the bat that they go and work with the practitioner?
Speaker:I
Speaker:think the best thing is first to go to a practitioner who does ozone therapy.
Speaker:And you can then see how, what, what the effect is on you.
Speaker:And then if you say, okay, I like the effect I want to do that, uh, to
Speaker:do with that home, then you can ask maybe, okay, what dosage can I use?
Speaker:And then you can continue with, uh, with that dosage and you
Speaker:won't do yourself any harm.
Speaker:But to, to, to start without any pre knowledge, I think that can be dangerous.
Speaker:Also, if you do rectal insufflation, one of the most, uh, complications is that
Speaker:people insufflate too much ozone and that they have too much air in the colon
Speaker:and that can give a lot of discomfort.
Speaker:Some people go to the, I heard that some people end up in, uh, in the
Speaker:emergency department because they insufflated so much air that they
Speaker:have so much pain that they had to go to the emergency department.
Speaker:So, yeah, be careful what you do, I would say.
Speaker:Stick to the protocols.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:And is, uh, I forget the, the Madrid.
Speaker:Declaration.
Speaker:Declaration.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Declaration.
Speaker:Thank you for that.
Speaker:Uh, is that, is that freely available for people to peruse through and get
Speaker:an understanding of, or is it a sort of a practitioner's only document?
Speaker:No, you can go to the website and it's For people who, again, like you said,
Speaker:who would want to do it at home, they can go to there and find protocols.
Speaker:So that's a possibility.
Speaker:It's a free website, an open website.
Speaker:That's an amazing resource.
Speaker:Andreas, I think that is potentially a great place to stop.
Speaker:I think that covers at least the basics for most people on Ozone and
Speaker:it's, it's, yeah, it's definitely a lot of information to take in.
Speaker:Going forwards, where, if people do want to work with you, I
Speaker:know you are obviously in Ibiza.
Speaker:Um, so maybe you don't have people flying in from all over the world, but
Speaker:if people do want to work with you, um, where's the best place that they
Speaker:can find you and connect with you?
Speaker:Yeah, uh, through my website, all my details are on my website.
Speaker:That's drhodiris.
Speaker:com, so d r g o t d double e r i s dot com.
Speaker:I'm also on Instagram, if people want to find me on Instagram, I
Speaker:make, uh Uh, posts every week about, uh, health, uh, to stimulate people
Speaker:to have a healthier lifestyle.
Speaker:Also a little bit on ozone therapy so people can find me there and yeah, that's
Speaker:the, the, the best channels I think to contact me if anybody would like that.
Speaker:That's perfect.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:And obviously we'll link to all of those, uh, resources in the show notes too.
Speaker:And those links that you've just mentioned.
Speaker:Andres, thank you very much for your time.
Speaker:It's, it's been great.
Speaker:I've definitely learned a lot and yeah, I look forward to
Speaker:doing this again with you soon.
