#052 Sheryl Dunn - Why Private Blood Testing Is Exploding in the UK
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#052 Sheryl Dunn - Why Private Blood Testing Is Exploding in the UK
Sheryl, Founder and Managing Director of Nationwide Pathology, established the company in 2011, bringing her extensive expertise from a distinguished career in pathology. After completing her training in NHS laboratories, she honed her skills managing a private laboratory in Birmingham. At Nationwide Pathology, Sheryl drives the technical operations, ensuring cutting-edge technologies are utilised to deliver precise test results. Her role also involves engaging with clients and addressing clinical queries. Known for her dedication to quality and innovation, Sheryl keeps the company at the forefront of the industry.
> During our discussion, you’ll discover:
(00::) How COVID-19 affected health testing labs
(00::) What is UKAS lab accreditation
(00::) What kind of equipment do health testing labs use
(00::) Ultra-sensitive hormone testing
(00::) How do private labs differ from the NHS
(00::) The use of AI in medical health testing
(00::) Why are people going to private labs more often
(00::) Should testing companies go Direct-to-Consumer
(00::) How the backend clinical support system at Nationwide works
(00::) What is a health test everyone should run every year
(00::) The biggest myth about private health testing
(00::) What is the biggest trend in private healthcare
(00::) What is the future direction of private healthcare in the UK
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Transcript
Welcome to the VP Life Podcast, the show
Speaker:where we bring you actionable health
Speaker:advice from leading minds.
Speaker:I'm your host, Rob.
Speaker:My guest today is Cheryl Dunn, Managing
Speaker:Director and the founder of Nationwide
Speaker:Pathology, a UCAS-accredited private
Speaker:laboratory she launched back in 2011
Speaker:after more than 30 years
Speaker:in the field of pathology.
Speaker:Expect to learn why private health care
Speaker:and blood testing are growing rapidly in
Speaker:the UK and where the NHS is currently
Speaker:falling short, how modern pathology labs
Speaker:operate behind the scenes, from advanced
Speaker:analyzers to emerging technologies like
Speaker:AI, and how accessible, preventative
Speaker:testing can help identify health issues
Speaker:early and improve long-term outcomes.
Speaker:Now, on to the
Speaker:conversation with Cheryl Dunn.
Speaker:Good afternoon, Cheryl,
Speaker:and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker:This is going to be an
Speaker:interesting show today.
Speaker:It's something that's
Speaker:definitely new for us in any case.
Speaker:Of course, we talked about diagnostics
Speaker:and biomarkers and blood work a fair
Speaker:amount in the past, but we've never
Speaker:really, I suppose, taken a dive of any
Speaker:depth into what your side of the industry
Speaker:is like and what makes it tick and why
Speaker:private health care, I suppose, is
Speaker:growing at the rate that it is.
Speaker:So, yeah, this is a conversation I'm
Speaker:excited to share with the listeners and
Speaker:your audience as well.
Speaker:In any case, before we dive into what
Speaker:makes a pathology service tick, would you
Speaker:mind introducing yourself, who you are,
Speaker:what you do, all that good stuff?
Speaker:Yeah, my name is Cheryl Dunn.
Speaker:I am a biomedical scientist by trade and
Speaker:have been for quite a long time, worked
Speaker:in the NHS and the private industry for
Speaker:40 plus years, which
Speaker:is a bit scary nowadays.
Speaker:So, yeah, so I started Nationwide Volley
Speaker:in 2011 and I'm currently MD and
Speaker:laboratory director of that company.
Speaker:And it's an interesting
Speaker:industry to be in, definitely.
Speaker:It's exciting and I still enjoy it.
Speaker:I know a lot of people look to retire at
Speaker:points in their life, but I've got no
Speaker:intention of doing that because it still
Speaker:really interests me being able to deliver
Speaker:a pathology service
Speaker:to people who need it.
Speaker:Yeah, no, you know what they say?
Speaker:You don't get old because you don't stop
Speaker:playing because you get old, you get old
Speaker:because you stop playing.
Speaker:And I think that rings
Speaker:true for any profession.
Speaker:I think the moment you retire,
Speaker:all the wheels fall off, don't they?
Speaker:And I think if you keep yourself going
Speaker:and going, then you're more likely to
Speaker:sort of age effectively, although that's
Speaker:probably a different conversation.
Speaker:What got you into
Speaker:biomedical science to begin with?
Speaker:What was your initial sort
Speaker:of call, I suppose, there?
Speaker:So originally I actually decided what I
Speaker:wanted to do when I was at school.
Speaker:I always loved science, lived in the city
Speaker:of Birmingham at the time when things by
Speaker:nudge weren't really
Speaker:available to me to go to university.
Speaker:My actual family friend was in those days
Speaker:a medical laboratory scientific officer
Speaker:in Wales, and she used to take me in the
Speaker:holidays to the lab.
Speaker:And I just was really interested in it.
Speaker:So at the age of 14, I wrote to all the
Speaker:hospitals and said, when I do my
Speaker:O-levels, can you give me a job?
Speaker:And the day in my O-levels came out, I
Speaker:had some letters come through the post.
Speaker:That said, would you like
Speaker:to come from an interview?
Speaker:So that's really how I started.
Speaker:I've never done anything
Speaker:different from that day.
Speaker:And I definitely
Speaker:formerly chose the right career.
Speaker:Fair enough.
Speaker:Well, I suppose that's
Speaker:quite fortuitous, one might say.
Speaker:OK, so let's dive into it.
Speaker:And maybe a bit of an odd place to start
Speaker:talking, to start off with.
Speaker:But how did you get
Speaker:nationwide off the ground?
Speaker:You mentioned you
Speaker:started the company in 2011.
Speaker:Now, color me curious, but I suppose how
Speaker:does one start a pathology lab?
Speaker:I mean, there are plenty of us who've got
Speaker:centrifuges, microscopes and stains
Speaker:floating around sort of
Speaker:under the kitchen sink at home.
Speaker:Maybe that's just me
Speaker:actually, come to think of it.
Speaker:But yeah, how did you sort of go from
Speaker:this private sector?
Speaker:I think you were in the NHS as well to
Speaker:then getting nationwide off the ground.
Speaker:I reckon it's probably quite the endeavor
Speaker:to begin with at least.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:As I say, I've always
Speaker:been really passionate.
Speaker:I worked in managed private lab for 20
Speaker:years and worked with him after the NHS.
Speaker:And when it's not your company, I wasn't
Speaker:going in the direction
Speaker:that I thought we could go in.
Speaker:And that's difficult when
Speaker:you're not your own boss.
Speaker:So there were lots of conversations and a
Speaker:lot of people said to me, you should be
Speaker:doing this on your own.
Speaker:You've got some really good ideas.
Speaker:But financially, to set
Speaker:up a lab is very difficult.
Speaker:So as a family, we took a real risk.
Speaker:We basically put everything on the line
Speaker:and thought, if we're going to go for
Speaker:this and do the things that we want to
Speaker:do, then we'll do it.
Speaker:And really, I've set up the lab with
Speaker:machinery from some companies that I've
Speaker:been involved with over the years.
Speaker:They took a risk on what I believed in
Speaker:and sat in a room with a load of
Speaker:equipment on my own and
Speaker:waited for the phone to ring.
Speaker:And that's where we started.
Speaker:And we just went from
Speaker:strength to strength.
Speaker:I think I knew the industry very well.
Speaker:So when what people wanted and we've
Speaker:developed into the company we are now,
Speaker:it's still very family.
Speaker:We try to treat all our stuff
Speaker:like it's a family environment.
Speaker:We haven't sold out to anyone.
Speaker:My husband and I are the sole directors.
Speaker:And we get excited
Speaker:about what we can deliver.
Speaker:We've moved.
Speaker:This is our third move and hopefully our
Speaker:final move to the premises right now.
Speaker:And it is difficult.
Speaker:It's difficult whatever
Speaker:business you start up in.
Speaker:I think you just have to really believe
Speaker:in what you're delivering to keep going.
Speaker:But, you know, there are late
Speaker:nights or still late nights.
Speaker:People think, you know, you have this
Speaker:fantastic life when you've got a business
Speaker:that is doing well and actually the
Speaker:effort that goes in behind the scenes is
Speaker:a lot more than people realize.
Speaker:People don't, whoever in business don't
Speaker:have holidays, they might go on holidays.
Speaker:They ultimately think about
Speaker:work or do work constantly.
Speaker:And I'm happy with that.
Speaker:So I think we're doing the right thing
Speaker:and I get great enjoyment in seeing the
Speaker:people we help through offering the
Speaker:service that we offer.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, I think your first business is always
Speaker:about fundamentally learning business as
Speaker:much as it is sort of
Speaker:delivering the product.
Speaker:Just to speak to what you've just said.
Speaker:And yeah, it's a labor of
Speaker:love at the end of the day.
Speaker:You can't sort of go into
Speaker:entrepreneurship and
Speaker:expect it to be easy.
Speaker:And as you've no doubt sort of picked up
Speaker:along the way, I think business is
Speaker:fundamentally the game of solving both
Speaker:your problems and other people's problems
Speaker:as they arrive and as they arise.
Speaker:It's kind of a combination of creating a
Speaker:really good product and a really good
Speaker:service, figuring out how to sell it and
Speaker:then putting up fires on the back end.
Speaker:In any case, when you sort of in the
Speaker:early days, were you sort of running
Speaker:most, were you doing most analytical?
Speaker:Can were you running the labs and on and
Speaker:all of that side of it?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I did all of the testing in the
Speaker:beginning and all of the admin work.
Speaker:And, you know, eventually as we got
Speaker:busier and busier, we brought people in
Speaker:to help all those sides.
Speaker:Obviously, you need someone to answer the
Speaker:phone or you can put resorts.
Speaker:So we just grew organically, customer
Speaker:wise and staff wise.
Speaker:And we've got some staff that have been
Speaker:with us for nearly the
Speaker:duration of that time.
Speaker:And it helps that I was on the ground.
Speaker:I know how it started and I can do
Speaker:everything that I expect
Speaker:everyone else to do now.
Speaker:And, you know, we've got children
Speaker:involved who are now part of the business
Speaker:and they all work
Speaker:their way from the bottom.
Speaker:So we all sort of learn everything.
Speaker:So you don't, you know, how long
Speaker:something takes and you know what you're
Speaker:expecting somebody to do.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's amazing.
Speaker:And I can just speak to the quality of
Speaker:the staff that you have.
Speaker:Not that this is an ad, especially, but
Speaker:you really do have amazing staff.
Speaker:You mentioned recently
Speaker:that you've moved again.
Speaker:Is this sort of a final
Speaker:and that being a final move?
Speaker:Is that just sort of
Speaker:from a point of expansion?
Speaker:Have you got new units in?
Speaker:Is that sort of the
Speaker:reason for the move or?
Speaker:So basically we've grown to labs,
Speaker:Dinto and an opportunity came up actually
Speaker:where we live at the moment
Speaker:where there was an empty bar.
Speaker:And to make life easier,
Speaker:we thought we might as well convert this
Speaker:building into a purpose built lab, which
Speaker:meant that we could have windows where we
Speaker:wanted them and we could look after our
Speaker:staff better, give
Speaker:them a better environment.
Speaker:It's also four times the size of the lab
Speaker:we move from the space.
Speaker:And we thought we'd have loads of room,
Speaker:but actually nine months later, it's
Speaker:absolutely jump packed.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Be looking for more space.
Speaker:But I think it is a
Speaker:permanent site where we are.
Speaker:We're in an ideal location right in the
Speaker:middle of the country.
Speaker:M1, M6, Cogdoor.
Speaker:We've got a train line to
Speaker:London that's 55 minutes.
Speaker:So we're well sat actually that we don't
Speaker:get those snarls of samples trying to get
Speaker:to us, even though we're not in London or
Speaker:not in this big city.
Speaker:It works really well for us.
Speaker:Fair enough.
Speaker:Yeah, I suppose having a background in
Speaker:biomedical science has
Speaker:definitely helped you.
Speaker:Do you think that that
Speaker:training sort of, I suppose,
Speaker:really, I suppose it did actually help
Speaker:you get established.
Speaker:Is this something that someone would,
Speaker:without your background, could
Speaker:potentially get into as
Speaker:well, setting up a pathology lab?
Speaker:Or do you think you need that technical
Speaker:experience if you maybe don't have a
Speaker:technical partner off the bat to help?
Speaker:I think you definitely do need a
Speaker:technical experience in the field,
Speaker:whether that's you implore somebody to do
Speaker:that part of it or not.
Speaker:But I think it helps.
Speaker:I think there are some labs that set up
Speaker:in Covid and Covid was a test.
Speaker:And that's one test, one lot for this
Speaker:control, one lot of results that can
Speaker:possibly go wrong or
Speaker:there's issues with it.
Speaker:When you're actually into the rounds of
Speaker:having a private pathology lab, there are
Speaker:hundreds of tests you are doing.
Speaker:And that's a lot
Speaker:different to doing one test.
Speaker:And I think people find that in Covid,
Speaker:they set up labs to
Speaker:just do Covid testing.
Speaker:And then they'll all
Speaker:delve into this market.
Speaker:And I think some of them have struggled a
Speaker:little bit with that concept.
Speaker:One, because there's a lot of machinery
Speaker:you need to do these
Speaker:tests, which is expensive.
Speaker:You have to have partners that are ready
Speaker:to put that amount of equipment and
Speaker:you've got to have the work and volume as
Speaker:well to cover those costs.
Speaker:And the quality side is
Speaker:very difficult as well.
Speaker:It's expensive and it's very laborious
Speaker:and it's very technical.
Speaker:So you need somebody very experienced to
Speaker:be able to help you with that quality
Speaker:side of it in your UCAS accreditation.
Speaker:Yeah, no, that's a perfect segue
Speaker:actually, because the next thing I wanted
Speaker:to talk about was UCAS accreditation.
Speaker:But before we get there,
Speaker:though, you mentioned Covid.
Speaker:Maybe the last question I'll ask here,
Speaker:just regarding the start up here
Speaker:regarding nationwide.
Speaker:But how did you sort
Speaker:of move through Covid?
Speaker:I assume it had a positive effect on the
Speaker:business at that time and space.
Speaker:Definitely.
Speaker:It was very difficult.
Speaker:We were all at the point where we didn't
Speaker:know what was going to happen.
Speaker:I personally thought we
Speaker:could all die from this flu.
Speaker:At the very beginning, it was very scary.
Speaker:And even though as labs do PCR testing,
Speaker:that is done, it wasn't
Speaker:used on a real team basis.
Speaker:So to be able to facilitate the amount of
Speaker:testing we did was quite
Speaker:challenging at the time.
Speaker:It was really exciting to be in that
Speaker:world of biomedical science at the time.
Speaker:We didn't know what was positive or what
Speaker:was negative necessarily.
Speaker:We did some of the first Covid testing.
Speaker:We obviously helped in
Speaker:that chest, our points.
Speaker:We did by the end of Covid, we were doing
Speaker:15,000 Covid tests a day
Speaker:and sent 15,000 kits out.
Speaker:So it was a big learning curve.
Speaker:We had to think on the hoof, there were
Speaker:lots of talks with the government and
Speaker:other scientists
Speaker:about how we approach it.
Speaker:Financially, it was obviously very good
Speaker:for the labs that did big testing.
Speaker:And that's probably allowed us to
Speaker:reinvest into a lot more testing post
Speaker:Covid, which is the exciting bit.
Speaker:Because as I said before, to bring new
Speaker:tests is their expensive bits and pieces.
Speaker:And you need the capital behind you to be
Speaker:able to facilitate that testing.
Speaker:Well, there's always a silver lining.
Speaker:So in any case,
Speaker:working in the supplement industry, which
Speaker:is sort of the background
Speaker:over here behind the podcast,
Speaker:I'm fairly familiar with
Speaker:testing of various sorts.
Speaker:And I know if you want your products to
Speaker:stand out in the market and to have any
Speaker:chance of being taken seriously, they
Speaker:need to be tested by a UCAS accredited
Speaker:lab, something you mentioned earlier.
Speaker:Now, obviously, a
Speaker:different sort of testing.
Speaker:But for the audience, would you mind
Speaker:breaking down what UCAS accreditation is
Speaker:and then maybe why it's
Speaker:important to have that as a lab?
Speaker:UCAS accreditation probably underpins
Speaker:quality of results you are delivering.
Speaker:It's changed over the years.
Speaker:UCAS accreditation some years ago, it
Speaker:used to be called something
Speaker:else and they accredited a lab.
Speaker:Whereas now UCAS
Speaker:accreditation is on each individual test.
Speaker:So they come in and they inspect us, but
Speaker:they go through every part of the
Speaker:business from recruitment to your
Speaker:website, to terms and conditions, to them
Speaker:drilling down to each individual test.
Speaker:And those individual tests are assessed
Speaker:on a strict regime according to an
Speaker:accreditation schedule
Speaker:that you have to fulfill.
Speaker:But part of that is that we carry out
Speaker:internal quality control every day, maybe
Speaker:testing sometimes twice a day on tests we
Speaker:do to make sure we're achieving a set
Speaker:result that we know from an own sample.
Speaker:And we also take part in
Speaker:external quality insurance.
Speaker:So you are it's a blind testing when you
Speaker:get samples sent to your lab, you test
Speaker:them, send back and then you all compared
Speaker:to your peers really.
Speaker:So there are certainly labs take part to
Speaker:do, for example, he would go and test and
Speaker:everyone's compared against each other.
Speaker:And also you compared against methods
Speaker:because every method or every different
Speaker:manufacturer has
Speaker:slightly different variables.
Speaker:So you can see whether you're achieving
Speaker:the same result as all the other Siemens
Speaker:users in the country.
Speaker:So internally, it's really good for
Speaker:quality because you can see instantly
Speaker:there's something going on with the test
Speaker:and that might not be at lab level.
Speaker:That might be a manufacturer level if
Speaker:they get in old resorts or things are
Speaker:quite where they'd expect them to be.
Speaker:So we do that for every test we do.
Speaker:You have to have specialist people who
Speaker:can inspect those particular tests and
Speaker:that's quite challenging for them.
Speaker:It's a hard job for them to get round all
Speaker:these labs, and inspect all of
Speaker:the tests that they're doing.
Speaker:And that's why sometimes the schedule of
Speaker:accreditation for labs doesn't cover
Speaker:every test because sometimes it can take
Speaker:you two years to get a test on that
Speaker:schedule, which is quite challenging.
Speaker:But it's because we've got that medical
Speaker:level of UCAS accreditation in our lab,
Speaker:it underpins to our clients that actually
Speaker:we follow the same protocols for all of
Speaker:the tests we're doing in-house.
Speaker:And we follow the same
Speaker:procedures, so it gives them...
Speaker:We're sure.
Speaker:We're sure that we are doing everything
Speaker:to the best of our
Speaker:ability of that sample.
Speaker:But obviously it's difficult.
Speaker:We're not hospitals, so we haven't got
Speaker:patients on wards for us.
Speaker:Our work comes in like careers or post.
Speaker:So you don't always know what sample,
Speaker:what's happened to that
Speaker:sample, wherever it is.
Speaker:It could be taken
Speaker:anywhere in the country.
Speaker:But we do our best to be able to say,
Speaker:right, on that sample, on that day, this
Speaker:is the test result we've
Speaker:achieved, and this is...
Speaker:We've got all this underlying quality
Speaker:control that we put in place to say that
Speaker:that's what we've
Speaker:achieved on that sample.
Speaker:There is some due diligence required by
Speaker:the customer, the physician, the
Speaker:phlebotomist, etc., to make sure that
Speaker:samples and specimens are obviously
Speaker:labeled accordingly.
Speaker:So you can then make a calculated
Speaker:decision on whether that sample is still
Speaker:viable when it arrives at the lab.
Speaker:I think ultimately what this
Speaker:accreditation seems to provide is just
Speaker:consistency with regards to test
Speaker:specificity and sensitivity across just
Speaker:all, as you mentioned,
Speaker:labs and machines and units.
Speaker:And so, I mean, that's the fact that
Speaker:you've got it obviously just speaks
Speaker:volumes to the type of
Speaker:service that you're running.
Speaker:So that's incredible.
Speaker:Joe, I'd love to switch gears a bit and
Speaker:then I suppose talk about maybe what
Speaker:makes Nationwide a little
Speaker:different from the norm.
Speaker:Now, starting off, how's your lab set up
Speaker:in terms of equipment?
Speaker:I reckon you've probably got a little
Speaker:more than I do stored under the kitchen
Speaker:sink and in the room closet.
Speaker:Yes, definitely.
Speaker:We've got a massive amount of equipment.
Speaker:We try and do as much as we can in-house
Speaker:and if we don't, if we've got a demand
Speaker:for it, we get some equipment in that we
Speaker:can do those tests on.
Speaker:Obviously, every test is done on
Speaker:different equipment.
Speaker:Our core equipment is Siemens Atelica
Speaker:analyzers and we do
Speaker:our routine biochemistry,
Speaker:our immunology on
Speaker:those mainline machines.
Speaker:That's quite an automated system.
Speaker:We've got a new bit of equipment, which
Speaker:is a track system that joins all those
Speaker:analyzers together, which
Speaker:makes us more efficient.
Speaker:But there are lots of companies that
Speaker:we've got equipment for in the lab.
Speaker:We've got LCMS, we've got PCR machines,
Speaker:we've got electrophoresis machines,
Speaker:hematology analyzers,
Speaker:and certain analyzers
Speaker:do different things.
Speaker:We've got an immuno light that
Speaker:we've run allergy testing on.
Speaker:We also do IgE and IgG allergy.
Speaker:There's a lot of equipment and hopefully
Speaker:our website will be updated soon and
Speaker:people will see the pictures of the new
Speaker:lab and see actually what
Speaker:it looks like inside of them.
Speaker:I suppose all your machines are
Speaker:constantly calibrated.
Speaker:Does this account for drift within your
Speaker:mass spec machines and
Speaker:things like that as well?
Speaker:Everything is calibrated, everything is
Speaker:close to controlled every day and
Speaker:sometimes twice a day.
Speaker:Sometimes we do the morning and we do an
Speaker:afternoon callers to control and run on
Speaker:our most common tests.
Speaker:Okay, that's impressive to say the least.
Speaker:And to be honest, it
Speaker:sounds like my idea of heaven.
Speaker:Maybe a bit of a technical question, but
Speaker:are you doing any sort of ultra sensitive
Speaker:hormone testing using
Speaker:LCMS, MS, anything like that?
Speaker:Obviously you get different sort of
Speaker:assays or test types of
Speaker:audience looking at hormones.
Speaker:Maybe as an example, you get ultra
Speaker:sensitive estradiol, for example, versus
Speaker:just an immune based assay.
Speaker:Are you looking at these ultra sensitive?
Speaker:Are you offering these
Speaker:ultra sensitive tests yet?
Speaker:Or are they more just
Speaker:sort of run of the mill?
Speaker:We
Speaker:will be.
Speaker:We've just invested in LCMS because we
Speaker:recognize that hormones, testosterone and
Speaker:estradiols are much
Speaker:more accurate on LCMS.
Speaker:And that's something we've just put in
Speaker:and we'll be launching in the next month
Speaker:also to offer our menopause clinics and
Speaker:our testosterone and plasma therapy
Speaker:clinics a more accurate way of testing.
Speaker:And that's something that I'm really
Speaker:interested in at the moment.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:also nice music to my ears because yeah,
Speaker:working with the old client and yeah, the
Speaker:moment they have, they're on any form of
Speaker:HRT, obviously those sort of, yeah, let's
Speaker:call them traditional sort of tests tend
Speaker:to be less reliable.
Speaker:So I'm really glad to hear that because
Speaker:yeah, that is definitely USP.
Speaker:I can't think of many
Speaker:labs who offer that.
Speaker:So that's exciting to hear.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So recently I went to my GP to get some
Speaker:blood thrown and believe it or not, I
Speaker:actually managed to get
Speaker:them to run serum copper,
Speaker:which surprised me.
Speaker:Normally, that's a bit of a juggling act.
Speaker:And yeah, I got cross
Speaker:question for an hour beforehand.
Speaker:But yeah, all came back except the
Speaker:copper, which I was told would
Speaker:take a few weeks to get done.
Speaker:That that's kind of stumped me to be a
Speaker:bit honest, I must admit as I believe you
Speaker:correct me if I'm wrong, I think most
Speaker:minerals are just sort of analyzed
Speaker:through atomic absorption spectroscopy.
Speaker:Again, I'm probably just very naive here,
Speaker:but that strikes me as a bit strange that
Speaker:as sort of a government based institution
Speaker:doesn't have sort of regular
Speaker:access to this sort of kit.
Speaker:Anyway, I suppose an actual question
Speaker:which sort of goes back
Speaker:to when I asked previously,
Speaker:how does a private lab like yours differ
Speaker:from a traditional NHS setup and yeah,
Speaker:what you've already discussed or well,
Speaker:I've mentioned off likely fairly limited.
Speaker:I think NHS pathways are different.
Speaker:And I think you've encountered that when
Speaker:you go to GP and you want particular
Speaker:tests that isn't in an NHS pathway or you
Speaker:don't fit the criteria for that test.
Speaker:So a lot of NHS labs don't have that
Speaker:specialized testing and they're not often
Speaker:used referral labs for that.
Speaker:How we differ is we try to off all of
Speaker:that and do what roof.
Speaker:So we will do vitamins and minerals on a
Speaker:sample we do we send
Speaker:very little work out.
Speaker:We like to keep control of our samples.
Speaker:So for example, if you go to a doctor and
Speaker:you ask for they suspect you've got a
Speaker:thyroid issue, they might just send it
Speaker:off for a T-sage because
Speaker:that's all there to do.
Speaker:Whereas we will do a whole thyroid panel,
Speaker:which actually gives a better picture.
Speaker:And if there is a result that is
Speaker:different, then the GP or the private
Speaker:doctor has that in front of them straight
Speaker:away instead of sending the patient back
Speaker:for another blood test.
Speaker:So we try to do more comprehensive
Speaker:testing that gives a
Speaker:bigger picture, I think.
Speaker:And in order to be able to do that as a
Speaker:private lab, you have to have that
Speaker:testing equipment in the house and you
Speaker:don't question what
Speaker:you're being requested to do.
Speaker:So I would decide whether it's relevant,
Speaker:clinical relevant to do certain tests on
Speaker:the sample that comes into us whereas NHS
Speaker:labs have to ask that question, why are
Speaker:we doing this test on this patient that's
Speaker:costing the NHS money?
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:no, I suppose that's a bigger issue
Speaker:potentially talking about NHS guidelines
Speaker:and why they will and
Speaker:won't do certain tests.
Speaker:But I think thyroid testing is
Speaker:completely, it's a mess.
Speaker:I mean, I'm sure you can speak to this
Speaker:too, but looking at someone's T-sage and
Speaker:just sort of hoping that your cover all
Speaker:bases just by looking at one signaling
Speaker:molecule is definitely not enough.
Speaker:And I suppose that sort of speaks to a
Speaker:reason why an individual should look to
Speaker:go private with testing to begin with,
Speaker:especially if there's maybe a bit more of
Speaker:a complex medical condition or they are
Speaker:struggling to get the answers that they
Speaker:need out of their GP.
Speaker:Hopefully something we can come back to a
Speaker:little later on in the conversation.
Speaker:Anyway, last time I checked, which was
Speaker:when I had some caffeine in me, we were
Speaker:in 2025 and we are slowly, well, not
Speaker:slowly actually, we're fast moving into
Speaker:this sort of area of well, everything
Speaker:artificial intelligence.
Speaker:Now,
Speaker:there are various companies popping out
Speaker:the woodwork here that are starting to
Speaker:sort of amalgamate sort of, I suppose,
Speaker:quote unquote
Speaker:traditional testing with AI.
Speaker:The clearly scan in the States being a
Speaker:perfect example of this, which is
Speaker:starting to utilize CTN geography along
Speaker:with these AI engines to create, well,
Speaker:results that look at calcium deposits in
Speaker:the body with far more accuracy than
Speaker:maybe just CTN geography by itself or
Speaker:traditional CAC
Speaker:school, something like that.
Speaker:Have you thought about AI at all?
Speaker:And are you looking to sort of
Speaker:potentially integrate it
Speaker:into your services yet?
Speaker:Or is that something that's maybe a
Speaker:couple of years down
Speaker:the line for you guys?
Speaker:I think for me, it's about the testing we
Speaker:do and the quality of testing to do.
Speaker:I think the
Speaker:interpretation of it may come in.
Speaker:I'm not 100% confident it
Speaker:will work for everybody.
Speaker:And that's the risk.
Speaker:I think it is, knowing it's probably
Speaker:someone, you know, good to me, that will
Speaker:look into that and say, actually, you
Speaker:know, this is going to come in.
Speaker:And I know there are companies out there
Speaker:experimenting with it.
Speaker:I don't know how that evolves when you're
Speaker:safe from the patient, whether people
Speaker:have done comparisons of what something
Speaker:AI would clinically diagnose
Speaker:compared to a normal doctor.
Speaker:And I think we just need to be.
Speaker:It is out there and it will come.
Speaker:But where we are with it
Speaker:at the moment, I don't know.
Speaker:For me, the important bit is us getting
Speaker:the latest technology and the best test
Speaker:results we can out there to enable
Speaker:somebody to be able to do
Speaker:a diagnosis on a patient.
Speaker:On
Speaker:the back end, yes, I suppose it's the
Speaker:case of it ain't broke.
Speaker:Don't fix it, really.
Speaker:Fair enough.
Speaker:Well, of course, it's, as you mentioned,
Speaker:it's the future and it's something I'm
Speaker:definitely excited to see develop.
Speaker:In any case, I'd like to pivot again into
Speaker:something else that maybe
Speaker:I'm a little more clued up on.
Speaker:And that's the preventative
Speaker:care side of the equation.
Speaker:Now, part of what I do with the clients
Speaker:that I work with is obviously
Speaker:has a lot to do with testing.
Speaker:Now, in the past, I've tried to work with
Speaker:maybe clients, PCP, their primary care
Speaker:physician, to help them keep the costs
Speaker:down and get the testing done like that.
Speaker:But it's never worked.
Speaker:It's always painful.
Speaker:It's back and forth.
Speaker:And now I rely predominantly
Speaker:on labs such as yourselves.
Speaker:From your point of view, though, why do
Speaker:you think more people are looking to
Speaker:optimize their, who are looking to
Speaker:optimize their health?
Speaker:Excuse me.
Speaker:I'll start on to turn to private labs and
Speaker:to help them keep track of the testing
Speaker:that they're choosing to run.
Speaker:I think people are more aware of their
Speaker:health in general now.
Speaker:And I think COVID has taught the general
Speaker:public that actually there is a lab out
Speaker:there and there is
Speaker:access to private testing.
Speaker:I think that's changed a lot.
Speaker:I think telemedicine is important.
Speaker:People don't have to
Speaker:go somewhere to do it.
Speaker:But the NHS is fantastic and it does what
Speaker:it does for acute care really well.
Speaker:We all want to be healthy.
Speaker:I think that is the way that
Speaker:we all want to live longer.
Speaker:We all want to have
Speaker:better quality of life.
Speaker:And I think we're all more aware of our
Speaker:health and what we can
Speaker:do to help that process.
Speaker:And I think that's where the private
Speaker:pathology market will expand massively.
Speaker:Because people take supplements, they
Speaker:want to live longer.
Speaker:They're looking at things.
Speaker:They're looking at different biomarkers
Speaker:than you would in the NHS.
Speaker:And monitoring their health, I think.
Speaker:And I think it's important that private
Speaker:labs offer that service because I don't
Speaker:necessarily think the NHS
Speaker:should offer that service.
Speaker:We're trying to get cost
Speaker:down, bring things in house.
Speaker:And the more we do with that testing, the
Speaker:cheaper it will become.
Speaker:Because instead of doing one test,
Speaker:you'll suddenly...
Speaker:test kits tend to come in a batch of 100.
Speaker:So if you're doing one and it goes off in
Speaker:30 days, you incur the
Speaker:whole cost of that test kit.
Speaker:If you could do 100,
Speaker:you're splitting that cost down.
Speaker:And what we do at Major Microbiology, we
Speaker:really try and pass that cost reduction
Speaker:on as soon as we've got demand or it's
Speaker:costing us less to do.
Speaker:Because there's no poor offering to test
Speaker:that's going to cost a thousand pound
Speaker:because no one's going to do it and it
Speaker:becomes inaccessible to people.
Speaker:But if you can offer something for 20,
Speaker:because you're doing probably not be,
Speaker:then it makes more sense.
Speaker:That makes perfect sense.
Speaker:And it's definitely a business model I
Speaker:can get behind, especially again, when
Speaker:working with clients and sort of
Speaker:oftentimes you will try and get them to
Speaker:run a few different tests at all at once.
Speaker:And yeah, those bills
Speaker:really do add up very quickly.
Speaker:So that's awesome to hear.
Speaker:So I suppose a lot of companies in this
Speaker:space have launched or starting to sort
Speaker:of build out these
Speaker:direct to consumer models.
Speaker:This obviously has its pros and cons.
Speaker:I would have thought with your clinical
Speaker:support team, that's maybe it's something
Speaker:that you would start to look at offering.
Speaker:I'd love to chat about your support team
Speaker:in a second, by the way.
Speaker:Is this sort of something that you're
Speaker:considering this sort of, yeah, this DTC
Speaker:model or you primarily just still looking
Speaker:to work through practitioners?
Speaker:We try and work through
Speaker:practitioners when we can.
Speaker:One of the reasons is we don't want to
Speaker:compete with our own customers.
Speaker:I know some labs are happy that they are
Speaker:offered to the general public.
Speaker:We did in COVID, obviously, because we
Speaker:had to offer to the public in COVID.
Speaker:I think it helps.
Speaker:I think there are a lot of private GPs
Speaker:and telemedicine companies that can help
Speaker:people and we can help facilitate that testing.
Speaker:But I really do like having that
Speaker:relationship with our GPs and it might be
Speaker:physios, it might be people who work in
Speaker:the gym, but we like having, helping them
Speaker:provide a service to their customers or
Speaker:their group of people as well.
Speaker:It's not about individual consumer
Speaker:testing for us because I think there are
Speaker:other platforms that do that quite well.
Speaker:Menopause and Test Australia
Speaker:are classic examples of that.
Speaker:There are companies that have thousands
Speaker:of clients on there.
Speaker:They're books and we just deal with the
Speaker:GPs, that run all the
Speaker:physios and the people.
Speaker:So I think where we can, we try to deal
Speaker:business to business rather than DTC.
Speaker:Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Speaker:I suppose it's kind of the old adage, you
Speaker:sort of stick to a warehouse focus on
Speaker:what you do well and then let everybody
Speaker:else sort of, I suppose,
Speaker:pick up a slack on the backend.
Speaker:Just out of interest, are you supporting
Speaker:any of these sort of platforms on the
Speaker:backend with their testing services?
Speaker:Yeah, there's a lot of the online
Speaker:companies that we do the testing for and
Speaker:we facilitate, which is different to a
Speaker:lot of other labs, we facilitate through
Speaker:Botany, which was a
Speaker:big hole in the market.
Speaker:So if you're doing online consultation
Speaker:and you need to go and have your blood
Speaker:taken, it was very difficult to find
Speaker:somewhere that can do that.
Speaker:And we facilitate that
Speaker:for all our customers.
Speaker:That's an add-on service we do.
Speaker:So we've got from Botany clinics all
Speaker:around the country that CQC registered
Speaker:and we have patient's bonus that are
Speaker:referred by their clinics and we put
Speaker:their postcode on and try and facilitate
Speaker:that from Botany, whether that's with a
Speaker:clinic based from Botany or
Speaker:whether it's a mobile service.
Speaker:So we've worked very hard since we first
Speaker:began really offering a free botany
Speaker:service across the country.
Speaker:We've streamlined that and I think that's
Speaker:a very good add-on for our customers and
Speaker:a lot of people use this because we offer
Speaker:that service and we do it very well.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:you definitely do.
Speaker:And again, I mean, it's something I've
Speaker:used as well with the
Speaker:clients I work with.
Speaker:And it is required because unlike,
Speaker:yeah, I suppose I'm the exception to the
Speaker:rule, but very few people are willing to
Speaker:flip optimize themselves like I am.
Speaker:So it's a case of do as I say, as I do,
Speaker:of course, but needs must sometimes,
Speaker:needs must occasionally.
Speaker:So yeah, I'm thrilled as
Speaker:a service that you offer.
Speaker:Okay, the other thing that you do really
Speaker:well is you've got this sort of back end
Speaker:clinical support structure that does help
Speaker:when helping to interpret results.
Speaker:How did and when did
Speaker:that sort of developed?
Speaker:Was that sort of something that was sort
Speaker:of introduced straight off the bat or has
Speaker:that something you've introduced over the
Speaker:years to sort of help?
Speaker:Well, I suppose the practitioners you
Speaker:work with in the odd sort of direct
Speaker:institutions, you know, you can help them
Speaker:to understand the labs that they're
Speaker:trying to run and interpret.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, I think it evolved.
Speaker:It was always there from the beginning,
Speaker:but on a very small scale.
Speaker:UCAS 15189 accreditations
Speaker:and medical accreditations.
Speaker:So it gives you it does require you to
Speaker:have consultant back
Speaker:up for clinical advice.
Speaker:We've got three, that's part of the
Speaker:standard for that accreditation.
Speaker:So it means that we can give advice, we
Speaker:can interpret some results.
Speaker:We can say whether you've got a current
Speaker:infection or we assume you've got a past
Speaker:infection based on the results we get.
Speaker:But also for in-depth things, especially
Speaker:from microbiology and
Speaker:some just disease results.
Speaker:We've got consultant back up that can
Speaker:talk to our GPs and reassure them or
Speaker:suggest for the
Speaker:testing that they may need.
Speaker:And that's an important part now, as we
Speaker:discussed earlier, the more and more
Speaker:people using private pathology labs.
Speaker:Obviously in hospital, we
Speaker:have instant access to doctors.
Speaker:But I think it's something that we are
Speaker:proud of that we can offer
Speaker:that service to all our clients.
Speaker:And it's really important because it
Speaker:gives them reassurance in cases that they
Speaker:can pick up the phone
Speaker:and speak to people.
Speaker:What we also do is, as I say, we don't
Speaker:operate a call centre for such, radical
Speaker:people and people have access to me and
Speaker:director level at any time, night or day,
Speaker:to speak to us if they're unsure about
Speaker:what testing they should be doing,
Speaker:whether they're unsure about the source.
Speaker:And I think that's very different.
Speaker:It makes us unique
Speaker:really in the vulture world.
Speaker:And I think that's something that would
Speaker:be very precious about keeping that we
Speaker:are a very bespoke tailor
Speaker:made service for our clients.
Speaker:And I think we can do that well, probably
Speaker:because we don't sound to the general
Speaker:public as well, because we're not
Speaker:overloading with individual cases.
Speaker:We can still deal with those individual
Speaker:cases, but we're doing them through one
Speaker:forum rather than each individual person.
Speaker:Yeah, that just speaks volumes again to
Speaker:the type of service that
Speaker:you are you're offering.
Speaker:And I think it does ultimately just
Speaker:result in better patient outcomes too,
Speaker:because you have multiple sorts of points
Speaker:of interpretation on the test.
Speaker:And then you can sort of come to sort of
Speaker:a common consensus as to maybe what the
Speaker:issue is and instead of maybe a
Speaker:misinterpretation on the physicians part
Speaker:if they maybe don't understand the
Speaker:nuances of that specific lab.
Speaker:So I think that is well, I
Speaker:know that's really helpful.
Speaker:In any case,
Speaker:Cheryl, you've been amazing.
Speaker:And I know we're
Speaker:starting to run up on time.
Speaker:Would you be open to just running through
Speaker:a few sort of rapid ish fire questions, a
Speaker:lightning round, as you might say,
Speaker:they're never that rapid.
Speaker:But yeah, sort of just a
Speaker:nice question to end off with.
Speaker:Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Test in your opinion that you reckon
Speaker:everybody should run maybe on
Speaker:a quarterly to a yearly basis.
Speaker:Definitely hemoglobin A1c
Speaker:is to pick up pre-diabetics.
Speaker:That is a big thing that can actually be
Speaker:reversed really easily if it's called a
Speaker:life thyroid function.
Speaker:I think it's really important to test.
Speaker:Your general well man, well woman checks.
Speaker:There are lots of
Speaker:diseases that can be addressed.
Speaker:Fairly simply that you might not pick up
Speaker:and GPs don't do that preventative well
Speaker:man, well woman check every year.
Speaker:If you're under a certain age as well,
Speaker:you know, we've
Speaker:picked up things actually.
Speaker:And the lab team when we've wanted to
Speaker:validate tests or use people as controls
Speaker:and we've picked up definitely thyroid
Speaker:issues, autoimmune type diseases.
Speaker:That is now people have been treated as
Speaker:giving them a better quality of life.
Speaker:I think it's really important to test and
Speaker:really important to trend as well.
Speaker:So what might be normal for you might
Speaker:alter slightly but might
Speaker:still be in that normal range.
Speaker:Most of those normal ranges are for 90%
Speaker:of the population, but your normal range
Speaker:might be slightly different.
Speaker:Your testosterone might run at a certain
Speaker:level and that might be
Speaker:normal for everyone else.
Speaker:But you know if that drops but still in a
Speaker:normal range and that affects your
Speaker:lifestyle or your well being.
Speaker:So I think it is important to check
Speaker:annually, six monthly annually for that.
Speaker:And that's what we do for
Speaker:our sports clients as well.
Speaker:You know, we're really
Speaker:involved in sports medicine.
Speaker:It's really important for them, these
Speaker:athletes to have regular testing because
Speaker:they are pushed to the
Speaker:extremes of their bodily.
Speaker:So we do a lot of trending
Speaker:for our sports clubs as well.
Speaker:How about trending you mean?
Speaker:Trend your so we
Speaker:compare results at the time.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Got you.
Speaker:And what sort of markers generally
Speaker:speaking there are you looking at for
Speaker:sort of professional sports teams?
Speaker:I assume it's a lot of hormones, a lot of
Speaker:liver enzymes, a lot of inflammation
Speaker:markers, obviously keeping an eye on
Speaker:those metabolic
Speaker:parameters you spoke on earlier.
Speaker:Is it just sort of an extension of this
Speaker:sort of the well man well woman test or
Speaker:are you looking for something sort of
Speaker:ultra specific with those tests?
Speaker:We do that.
Speaker:I think I think sports medicine actually
Speaker:has gone down the roof of nutrition and
Speaker:it's very important to them.
Speaker:And they obviously have supplements for
Speaker:certain things they have to be certain
Speaker:biomarkers have to be high levels in the
Speaker:lead athletes because their bodies are
Speaker:under such extreme pressure.
Speaker:And also they get ill.
Speaker:They're ill like any of us, you know,
Speaker:some of these sports players is a lot of
Speaker:guided fever, those sort of things.
Speaker:So there's, there's a
Speaker:lot of testing in sports.
Speaker:And I think they tailor made their
Speaker:nutrition as well, depending on the
Speaker:biomarkers they get, you know, their
Speaker:vitamin D's are at a certain level, their
Speaker:ferritin level has to
Speaker:be at a certain level.
Speaker:We test copper and zinc, in a lot of
Speaker:sports players, we test a lot of vitamins
Speaker:as well, which is really interesting.
Speaker:So the sports side of
Speaker:it is very specific.
Speaker:And on our, we offer a trending platform
Speaker:as well that with regular blood tests can
Speaker:actually look at there.
Speaker:There was also the time which is, which
Speaker:is interesting, because
Speaker:it impacts performance.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, that's, that's impressive.
Speaker:And I sort of love the fact that you
Speaker:brought up nutrients, I think that aside
Speaker:from the sort of the metabolic markers
Speaker:nutrients are one of the most overlooked
Speaker:markers or biomarkers that
Speaker:people should be checking.
Speaker:Bit of a selfish question, maybe, are you
Speaker:looking at sort of whole serum nutrients
Speaker:or do you do red blood cell as well, sort
Speaker:of across the range?
Speaker:Yeah, we do both depending on what the
Speaker:climate, so we could
Speaker:do a red cell or serum.
Speaker:Okay, perfect.
Speaker:Well, that was not a rapid fire question.
Speaker:Hopefully the next one.
Speaker:No, that was completely my fault.
Speaker:I just went off on tangents, sort of,
Speaker:yeah, get me going and
Speaker:we'll be here till Christmas.
Speaker:Okay, next one, and I'll try not to
Speaker:interrupt too much, but
Speaker:I'll probably fail miserably.
Speaker:What's the biggest myth
Speaker:about private blood testing?
Speaker:The myth that it's expensive.
Speaker:I think I think people
Speaker:think it's not reachable.
Speaker:And it definitely is and it's got more
Speaker:that way as I highlighted before we are
Speaker:not afraid at the nationwide pathology of
Speaker:bringing test prices down.
Speaker:If I can bring it in the house and do it
Speaker:cheaper, I'd much rather do that with a
Speaker:quicker turnaround, cheaper test, which
Speaker:makes it accessible to people who
Speaker:wouldn't think that
Speaker:they have access to that.
Speaker:To start with, yeah.
Speaker:Okay, a follow up on that one.
Speaker:How can patients save
Speaker:money on private testing?
Speaker:I think if they went to
Speaker:reputable private GPs, I think, Dr.
Speaker:Google isn't an ideal thing because you
Speaker:can put lots of things into Google that
Speaker:bring up very, very expensive tests.
Speaker:Whereas if they go to somebody, not
Speaker:necessarily a private GP, but that
Speaker:somebody who's experienced in nutrition
Speaker:or physios or some people who
Speaker:are really interested in that.
Speaker:I think then they can direct them to
Speaker:testing that is relevant
Speaker:and not overly expensive.
Speaker:Obviously, some of these tests that
Speaker:appear in the papers every Sunday are
Speaker:actually trying to test and they don't
Speaker:hit some university in America and
Speaker:they're actually not available.
Speaker:But I think there's a lot of people out
Speaker:there that can direct people to cost
Speaker:effective private testing.
Speaker:Yeah, I think there's definitely an
Speaker:element of Dunning-Kruger, that cognitive
Speaker:bias where people with maybe a low
Speaker:competence in a specific area tend to
Speaker:overestimate their ability
Speaker:or knowledge in that domain.
Speaker:And then they get onto Google and then
Speaker:all of a sudden they go wild on a DTC
Speaker:platform and rake up a 3,000 quid bill
Speaker:when in reality all they need to do is
Speaker:check a few simple markers.
Speaker:Yeah, those are
Speaker:definitely sage words of advice.
Speaker:And I think as well what is relevant is
Speaker:sometimes people want a lot of testing
Speaker:and if they go through some of our
Speaker:clients, if they send that to us,
Speaker:individual testing, you have to have an
Speaker:individual price for a test.
Speaker:But if you're doing a big group of
Speaker:biomarkers, we can offer different
Speaker:profiles and more cost effective profiles
Speaker:and we can actually group those together.
Speaker:And we have actually launched for a lot
Speaker:of our clients, some tired all the time
Speaker:profiles and some
Speaker:well-man, some well-woman.
Speaker:That if you go on a platform and request
Speaker:each of those tests individually, it
Speaker:becomes hundreds of pounds when actually
Speaker:we can make a much more cost effective
Speaker:way of doing some set profiles.
Speaker:So that's how we like to work.
Speaker:We like to be able to offer people the
Speaker:best price for the most comprehensive
Speaker:testing that we can
Speaker:with the quickest way.
Speaker:That sort of economy of scale thing sort
Speaker:of starts ranking up in
Speaker:your favour as the consumer.
Speaker:Okay, next one.
Speaker:What do you find is the biggest trend in
Speaker:private healthcare at the moment?
Speaker:To say I think
Speaker:hormone testing is very big.
Speaker:I think testosterone
Speaker:will be the next big market.
Speaker:We are obviously women's menopause
Speaker:clinics are very well-known now.
Speaker:They're very publicised.
Speaker:People know about them.
Speaker:I think there is a myth behind men saying
Speaker:they have a problem.
Speaker:And I think generally as a lab, we have
Speaker:seen men to testosterone results drop
Speaker:dramatically over the last few years.
Speaker:And I think really that is, you know, we
Speaker:can get rid of the kudos of men having
Speaker:low testosterone and make men talk about
Speaker:it more or more symptoms.
Speaker:And I definitely think that's something
Speaker:we should be testing.
Speaker:Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker:I was going to I
Speaker:would have said longevity.
Speaker:I think that's possibly the next
Speaker:burgeoning market as well.
Speaker:I think a lot of people are starting to
Speaker:become very sort of aware of their
Speaker:mortality and that there's
Speaker:something you can do about it.
Speaker:And obviously, there are a lot of markers
Speaker:associated, quote unquote, with one's
Speaker:longevity that can be where this data
Speaker:that can be extrapolated.
Speaker:And there's data that can be
Speaker:extrapolated from those tests.
Speaker:But no, I mean, that's an
Speaker:interesting take for sure.
Speaker:And I suppose the last question of the
Speaker:day, where do you think the private
Speaker:health care system is headed in the UK?
Speaker:I think more and more people use private
Speaker:health care, one because
Speaker:the NHS is overstretched.
Speaker:And also, there are lots of new tests and
Speaker:new things we're finding out.
Speaker:We're learning.
Speaker:There's a lot in cancer care and tests we
Speaker:can do that prevent it or recognizing
Speaker:cancer before it
Speaker:actually becomes symptomatic.
Speaker:And I think the private market is in that
Speaker:field at the moment.
Speaker:But also, I just think, as you say,
Speaker:people are looking at longevity and are
Speaker:more aware of the health.
Speaker:And I definitely think that middle age,
Speaker:or you can, the younger person wants to
Speaker:know if there's anything they can do and
Speaker:whether losing weight affects whether you
Speaker:become too diabetic in the future.
Speaker:And I think none of us want to sit at
Speaker:home and not do anything.
Speaker:We're not 60 now.
Speaker:We'll sit in a chair and
Speaker:never go out or do anything.
Speaker:We're all fit and active.
Speaker:We all want to carry on
Speaker:anything forever, really.
Speaker:So the more we can do it, the more
Speaker:accessible private health
Speaker:care is, the better for us all.
Speaker:And it will help the NHS in the long term
Speaker:that we're not sat in hospital with
Speaker:similar problems that we perhaps could
Speaker:have solved before bed.
Speaker:Yeah, it's all about
Speaker:prevention at the end of the day.
Speaker:Cheryl, you've been a
Speaker:star and a treasure.
Speaker:Where is the best place to point people?
Speaker:Should they want to learn more about the
Speaker:work you do nationwide and where can they
Speaker:maybe connect with you online?
Speaker:What's your preferred social platform?
Speaker:All that good stuff.
Speaker:I think LinkedIn is
Speaker:our most today platform.
Speaker:We've got a really good page on there.
Speaker:We put new things all the time.
Speaker:New tests we're doing.
Speaker:We're bringing in house.
Speaker:Our turnaround time.
Speaker:Our website is being
Speaker:updated at the moment.
Speaker:They can go to our website and they can
Speaker:just call us anytime.
Speaker:We're open six days a week till 10 in the
Speaker:evening from half seven in the morning.
Speaker:And our team are on hand to answer any
Speaker:questions or help anybody with any
Speaker:questions that they want to ask.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:And that website, you're all being
Speaker:nationwide pathology.ca.uk.
Speaker:Is that correct?
Speaker:That's correct.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Well, thank you very much for your time.
Speaker:This has been an amazing conversation.
Speaker:And hopefully we can do another one at
Speaker:some point in the future.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Thank you, Rob.
