#038 Alex Tarnava - Hydrogen, Hormesis & Healing: A Deep Dive
Alex Tarnava is a researcher, inventor, and author best known for developing the patented, clinically validated open-cup hydrogen tablets that have reshaped the health and wellness industry. As a leading voice in molecular hydrogen research Alex has contributed extensively to the scientific literature while also funding and guiding cutting-edge studies in the field. This has led to Alex becoming the first Chairman of the Molecular Hydrogen Institute Volunteer Research Committee.
His latest innovations include a patent-pending hydrogen inhalation device developed in collaboration with Dr. Tyler LeBaron, designed to solve long-standing safety and efficacy issues in the field. Alex is also pioneering research on hydrogen as a delivery system for pharmaceuticals, with early data showing both enhanced efficacy and reduced side effects. His unique perspective on the connectedness of multiple domains, having advanced knowledge in each—business, regulatory, research, and publishing—combined with his lifelong philomathy of techniques to seek truth—give him unique perspectives into the deterioration of truth in society.
> During our discussion, you’ll discover:
(00:17:48) Alex’s personal health crisis
(00:22:48) How does molecular hydrogen improve the health of the body
(00:35:35) How hydrogen interacts with the gut
(00:41:49) Combining hydrogen and GLP-1 agonists for weight loss
(00:45:51) Other ways to put hydrogen into the body
(00:54:22) Hydrogen generators
(01:01:42) The best way to use hydrogen tablets
(01:05:09) Can you take H2 tablets without enough water
(01:06:41) What new molecules are on the horizon for healthcare
(01:08:35) How Alex is taking charge of his own health
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Transcript
Hey there, Alex, it's great to finally
Speaker:connect and to have
Speaker:you on the podcast today.
Speaker:I know it's a little early there.
Speaker:And as you've just mentioned, you've just
Speaker:got your first born
Speaker:that's come into your life.
Speaker:So I really appreciate
Speaker:the time that you're taking.
Speaker:Now, familiar, I'm sure that most people
Speaker:in this space who are familiar with
Speaker:molecular hydrogen are to at least some
Speaker:extent familiar with you and your work,
Speaker:especially as you've been on the podcast
Speaker:circuit a lot in recent times.
Speaker:But for those in the audience who maybe
Speaker:just aren't familiar with you and your
Speaker:story, would you mind just running us
Speaker:through how you end up in this space?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So this would be going back about a
Speaker:decade, maybe a little bit more.
Speaker:I was in a completely different field.
Speaker:It gave me a lot of freedom
Speaker:financially and time wise.
Speaker:And so my time was
Speaker:spent largely exercising.
Speaker:You know, and competing a little bit of
Speaker:competing and CrossFit, but helping
Speaker:friends get prepped for
Speaker:fights in martial arts.
Speaker:I was training four to six hours a day
Speaker:and I got hit with the mystery virus.
Speaker:It caused an autoimmune like response.
Speaker:I developed sudden onset narcolepsy.
Speaker:I was sleeping 16 plus hours a day.
Speaker:If I sat down for more than
Speaker:a minute, I'd fall asleep.
Speaker:That was a narcolepsy aspect.
Speaker:And I had central nervous system fatigue.
Speaker:So my strength was normal, but I couldn't
Speaker:do anything explosive.
Speaker:Like couldn't jump an inch
Speaker:off the ground, basically.
Speaker:Sorry to interrupt.
Speaker:Was there anything sort of postural then
Speaker:sort of a sort of a POTS component?
Speaker:Do you think?
Speaker:A postural orthostatic hypertension sort
Speaker:of element to that, just with that sort
Speaker:of CNS fatigue or it just sort of screams
Speaker:that sort of
Speaker:autonomic dysregulation to me.
Speaker:Or do you think there was another
Speaker:underlying trigger there?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean for hypertension, my blood
Speaker:pressure by memory wasn't that abnormal,
Speaker:but that was something.
Speaker:Especially when this happened, my resting
Speaker:heart rate was in the mid thirties.
Speaker:My blood pressure was
Speaker:like a hundred over 70.
Speaker:I remember it spiked a little bit, but
Speaker:nothing that the doctor
Speaker:itself was concerning.
Speaker:What was the most concerning is my
Speaker:C-reactive proteins, which
Speaker:were 35 milligrams a liter.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:It's like...
Speaker:Or line cancerous.
Speaker:Yeah, it's a hundred times abnormal, you
Speaker:know, and now mine are undetectable.
Speaker:So, you know, 150, 200 plus times higher
Speaker:levels of inflammatory
Speaker:markers than what I currently have.
Speaker:So that lasted a few months and all of a
Speaker:sudden the dust cleared and things
Speaker:started settling back down to normal.
Speaker:And by normal, I mean my C-R-P dropped to
Speaker:like three, which is still what you'd
Speaker:expect when you're sick,
Speaker:when something is going on.
Speaker:But not 34.
Speaker:But when that happened, I had developed
Speaker:osteoarthritis in 11 joints.
Speaker:So the high levels of inflammation for
Speaker:months had basically ravaged every joint
Speaker:that I'd had a previous injury in.
Speaker:Doctors told me that I should never work
Speaker:out again, you know, put me on high
Speaker:levels of like anti-inflammatories and
Speaker:cortisone injections.
Speaker:And I just knew that
Speaker:wasn't a forever solution.
Speaker:At 29 years old and having my life
Speaker:largely been about fitness and exercise.
Speaker:So I just dove deep into what we now call
Speaker:biohacking and looking for absolutely
Speaker:anything that could regulate the
Speaker:inflammatory response.
Speaker:I came across research on hydrogen,
Speaker:hydrogen water and bought
Speaker:a machine for like $5,000.
Speaker:Went on my Mary Way.
Speaker:I was doing countless other things,
Speaker:various supplements, various, you know,
Speaker:therapies, doing cold exposure, you know,
Speaker:sauna, like doing all this, this stuff.
Speaker:And also was doing the
Speaker:anti-inflammatories in
Speaker:the cortisone injections.
Speaker:I must have loved you.
Speaker:Yeah, about nine months in, I fainted in
Speaker:the gym a few times.
Speaker:I wasn't processing my nutrients.
Speaker:I developed multiple ulcers.
Speaker:So I had to abruptly stop the
Speaker:anti-inflammatories.
Speaker:Then my inflammation spiked again.
Speaker:All my joints froze.
Speaker:I couldn't put on a shirt, you know,
Speaker:couldn't, had to lie down
Speaker:to put on socks type thing.
Speaker:And I had to go back to the drawing board
Speaker:because obviously none of the biohacks I
Speaker:was doing were properly working.
Speaker:Only the drugs were working
Speaker:and dove back into the research.
Speaker:And I found new studies on hydrogen water
Speaker:and molecular hydrogen.
Speaker:And they kind of pissed me off because I
Speaker:had this $5,000 machine and it was doing
Speaker:nothing for me, but it just dawned on me.
Speaker:Well, what dose am I getting and what
Speaker:dose are they using in the research?
Speaker:So I started buying the full papers to
Speaker:read the material and methods, quickly
Speaker:discovered that not a single one of the
Speaker:clinical trials was using an electrolysis
Speaker:machine like I'd bought.
Speaker:Um, they were all reporting
Speaker:concentrations and dosages of age two.
Speaker:I had no idea what I was getting.
Speaker:I found a reagent to test the hydrogen
Speaker:and it was undetectable.
Speaker:I had to triple the
Speaker:input to detect anything.
Speaker:So it was, you know, 0.03 parts per
Speaker:million is what I was getting, which is a
Speaker:small fraction of the minimum observed
Speaker:therapeutic threshold to have any
Speaker:physiological effect and the minimum
Speaker:threshold to do anything in the body is
Speaker:not what's going to work or work for the
Speaker:best, you know, for, for anything.
Speaker:So that, uh, gave me a bit of hope and
Speaker:there was nothing commercially available
Speaker:other than these,
Speaker:these electrolysis devices.
Speaker:And, uh, I started doing some tweaking
Speaker:and then I found there was some emerging
Speaker:stuff coming out and I started testing
Speaker:yet it had loads of problems.
Speaker:But, uh, basically between my own, like
Speaker:Jerry rigging of getting these reactions
Speaker:done and trying to maximize it, I started
Speaker:getting to about three parts per million
Speaker:and drinking several
Speaker:liters of the water a day.
Speaker:Um, I was pressurizing
Speaker:it in like thermoses.
Speaker:Um, a few actually exploded in my fridge
Speaker:from the pressure build up.
Speaker:Like, so that was a fun issue, but, uh,
Speaker:within like a week and a half of getting
Speaker:in this high dosage, daily dosage of
Speaker:hydrogen, my joints all loosened and I
Speaker:started feeling energy again and feeling
Speaker:better and I started thinking, wow,
Speaker:there's, there's something here.
Speaker:Um, but, uh, I had a bit of a sober
Speaker:second thought, um, cause I was using
Speaker:elemental magnesium, uh, doing this
Speaker:reaction and I knew enough about the
Speaker:basic chemistry to know that I'm making
Speaker:hydrogen, but I'm not a chemist and I
Speaker:didn't know if there were any side
Speaker:reactions that were making something
Speaker:toxic or harmful, uh, am
Speaker:I doing something wrong?
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Are there heavy metals?
Speaker:Um, so I tested the magnesium I was
Speaker:getting and I pulled in this magnesium.
Speaker:I'd found sources in, in like Eastern
Speaker:Europe and in China, right?
Speaker:Because the, the stuff controlled in the
Speaker:U S like eventually, which is what I'm
Speaker:using, I'm using a pharmaceutical grade
Speaker:of the magnesium, but I had to go through
Speaker:an extensive background check to, to get
Speaker:it and export it, you know, through the
Speaker:state department, because it's heavily
Speaker:controlled right in the U S.
Speaker:Um, and the stuff I was getting in from
Speaker:Eastern Europe and China was never
Speaker:labeled as magnesium.
Speaker:It was always something like
Speaker:silver paint powder, right?
Speaker:Like, um, because I learned it was
Speaker:illegal for them to export.
Speaker:So, um, I tested it.
Speaker:The heavy metals were high, but not
Speaker:dangerously high, like high to be doing
Speaker:every day for the rest of my life.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Chronically.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Um, and, uh, uh, uh,
Speaker:found my founding partner, Dr.
Speaker:Holland, he, he's a
Speaker:PhD, uh, organic chemist.
Speaker:Uh, he's, he's
Speaker:originally from the UK actually.
Speaker:Um, and, uh, he's from the pharmaceutical
Speaker:industry and I asked him to take a look.
Speaker:At first he told me, I'm
Speaker:going to save you the money.
Speaker:This is the worst pseudoscience I've ever
Speaker:heard in my life and gave me a long list
Speaker:of reasons why this wouldn't have a
Speaker:physiological effect.
Speaker:And even if it did, why you'd want to
Speaker:inhale rather than drink.
Speaker:Um, fortunately I had read every single
Speaker:paper at that time on molecular hydrogen
Speaker:and its physiological
Speaker:effects, um, including.
Speaker:Data head to head from drinking water to
Speaker:inhalation and the difference in bio
Speaker:availability and
Speaker:different organs and tissues.
Speaker:So I shared this with him.
Speaker:I rebutted every one of his points and he
Speaker:said, well, you know, I'm shocked.
Speaker:I still don't really believe it, but
Speaker:peers, there's enough for
Speaker:me to take a look for you.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I'll, I'll take a look.
Speaker:This is my right.
Speaker:And, uh, he went on looking at my
Speaker:formulation and the chemistry and every
Speaker:day I just sent him a new study.
Speaker:Um, just to pique his interest.
Speaker:I was really excited at this time because
Speaker:it had had such a profound effect on my
Speaker:own health and I want to keep doing it.
Speaker:Uh, and serendipitous serendipitously, I
Speaker:sent him a one paper on a certain heart
Speaker:disease model that I was not aware of,
Speaker:but he was a lead chemist developing
Speaker:small molecules to target
Speaker:that disease at the time.
Speaker:And it was, uh,
Speaker:a phase two ish style, like, uh, double
Speaker:blind clinical trial.
Speaker:And, uh, he called and asked if I wanted
Speaker:to meet for lunch and that
Speaker:he had some findings for me.
Speaker:And, uh, you know, he'd made some tweaks
Speaker:to, to my formulation, but importantly,
Speaker:he wanted to talk about that paper.
Speaker:And he said the other papers he were, he
Speaker:was just having to trust the conclusions
Speaker:because he wasn't really a subject matter
Speaker:expert, but, uh, he remarked that he was
Speaker:on this model and told me he was
Speaker:developing small molecules for it.
Speaker:And he wishes the molecules, his company
Speaker:was developing worked as well as this
Speaker:paper, and he basically said, are you
Speaker:sure you just want this as a do it
Speaker:yourself project,
Speaker:like nobody's doing this.
Speaker:Shouldn't like you're sure you don't want
Speaker:to commercialize this.
Speaker:And, uh,
Speaker:I thought long and hard about it.
Speaker:Um, you know, I, I thought
Speaker:who am I to enter this field?
Speaker:I have no background
Speaker:in this field, right?
Speaker:Um, I, uh, don't want to go into
Speaker:something that requires expertise and
Speaker:just be pushing something
Speaker:that I don't understand.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:but I'd also promised myself because I
Speaker:abandoned some business ideas that years
Speaker:later, other people thought of and, and
Speaker:you know, what went and distributed.
Speaker:So I promised myself that I'd never let
Speaker:an opportunity like that slip again.
Speaker:Um, so I started doing my due diligence.
Speaker:I spoke to attorneys, uh, the first
Speaker:attorney I spoke to, um,
Speaker:cause I was thinking about raising, you
Speaker:know, funds and if I was going to need
Speaker:to, and I didn't want to, but if I was
Speaker:going to need to, what it would go and
Speaker:strap this.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, uh, he basically like I told him
Speaker:what I was doing and the research.
Speaker:And, uh, um, by this time we'd actually
Speaker:developed a tablet that was working.
Speaker:And after an hour meeting, he said,
Speaker:listen, I'm not going to charge you for
Speaker:this meeting and I'm not going to charge
Speaker:you to get all this set up.
Speaker:So long as you shake my hand and say that
Speaker:I'm going to be your
Speaker:corporate attorney as you get going.
Speaker:So that gave me even more faith that,
Speaker:okay, like maybe like there's something
Speaker:here, there's something here, right.
Speaker:And I'm getting this
Speaker:kind of encouragement.
Speaker:And then I, I, uh, hand pressed bottles
Speaker:for about, you know, 40, 50 friends,
Speaker:family members, friends of friends that
Speaker:we're dealing with various chronic like
Speaker:pain issues, like,
Speaker:especially like exercise related.
Speaker:And the response was just overwhelming.
Speaker:Everyone's like, what did you give me?
Speaker:This is, this is like magic.
Speaker:Like this is fixing this or fixing that.
Speaker:And all of these, uh, confirmations along
Speaker:the way kept me going.
Speaker:Um, the first year, year
Speaker:and a half was arduous.
Speaker:Um, it only took a few weeks for us to
Speaker:finalize the formulation and a mortar and
Speaker:pestle and making 20 at a time, but
Speaker:making millions at high speed is a
Speaker:different beast entirely.
Speaker:And it was 15 failed scale of attempts
Speaker:over a year and 3000 iterative
Speaker:adjustments to formulation and process
Speaker:before we got our first working
Speaker:formulation that didn't work nearly as
Speaker:well as those firsthand pressed tablets.
Speaker:You know, and, and to be frank, um, even
Speaker:the tablet we have today doesn't work
Speaker:quite as well as the first hand pressed
Speaker:tablets because everything you do in
Speaker:manufacturing can take away, but we're
Speaker:pretty darn close to, to what we did day
Speaker:one, but now we're at least 10,000 get of
Speaker:adjustments into formulation process to
Speaker:continue refining, continue perfecting
Speaker:and be able to make it high speed, but
Speaker:now I had a working product and I can
Speaker:make it, but the next question was, do I
Speaker:want to just be like a zealot believer
Speaker:or, or do I want to put my money where my
Speaker:mouth is and see if this does work
Speaker:because I can't look
Speaker:at myself in the mirror.
Speaker:I can't sleep if I think that I'm just
Speaker:being a fraud, right.
Speaker:And don't know.
Speaker:So I set out on the next task.
Speaker:I emailed every first and corresponding
Speaker:author on every single human study on
Speaker:hydrogen at the time and quite a number
Speaker:of the rodent studies offering free
Speaker:product, free placebo and donations.
Speaker:If they wanted to use my tablet in the
Speaker:research, I got some bites that kept
Speaker:going and, uh, I'm a
Speaker:big believer in truth.
Speaker:So how most companies conduct research is
Speaker:when they're paying for research is under
Speaker:a research agreements, um, and results
Speaker:can only be published
Speaker:if the funding body.
Speaker:Like agree with the findings.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I just don't believe that's ethical.
Speaker:We don't know the truth if we don't know
Speaker:what doesn't get published because if it
Speaker:takes a company 10 times to find the
Speaker:result they want, then it doesn't work.
Speaker:Didn't work nine times.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Um, so cherry picking
Speaker:dates are just based.
Speaker:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker:And this has allowed us, like we have
Speaker:over 20 clinical trials.
Speaker:Now we have more clinical trials underway
Speaker:than we have published, but because at
Speaker:every step of the way, um, I'm allowing
Speaker:researchers to publish no matter what the
Speaker:outcomes are, right?
Speaker:They can publish if it doesn't work, they
Speaker:can publish if it shows harm.
Speaker:This allows them to get grants, you know,
Speaker:from governmental bodies and agencies and
Speaker:their, their
Speaker:institutions to pay their salaries.
Speaker:So the research we've done would have
Speaker:probably cost in the nine figures, but
Speaker:it's cost us maybe a
Speaker:million or $2 million.
Speaker:I haven't done the math, right?
Speaker:But we've done the research for one, 100,
Speaker:the cost of what most private companies
Speaker:do because we are taking this risk and we
Speaker:want truth to prevail.
Speaker:And if we find out, if we found out it
Speaker:didn't work or it's harming people, then
Speaker:I wouldn't have been able to continue on
Speaker:in the business anyways.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I didn't want to be beholden to this
Speaker:whole like shareholder primacy, which is
Speaker:the biggest evil that's befall in the
Speaker:Western world that I have to do
Speaker:everything to protect earnings, you know,
Speaker:either this is showing that it's working
Speaker:and helping people or it's not right.
Speaker:Because I can always find something else
Speaker:to be my purpose and make money, but I'm
Speaker:not going to do anything for
Speaker:the purpose of making money.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Money is a tool for your purpose.
Speaker:It's not the purpose.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So that's why I
Speaker:structured things the way I do.
Speaker:And at this time now we have 21 structure
Speaker:function claims legal to like FTC, FDA
Speaker:standards in the U S uh, like I
Speaker:mentioned, we have over 20 clinical
Speaker:trials, a bunch of preclinical trials.
Speaker:We have more clinical trials on the
Speaker:hydrogen tablets than every other
Speaker:commercial hydrogen
Speaker:water product combined.
Speaker:And we have more
Speaker:underway than we have published.
Speaker:So our lead is just growing because of
Speaker:our philosophy for truth and for science.
Speaker:And, uh, again, really it's, it was a put
Speaker:in your money where your mouth is like
Speaker:I'm a believer, but I'm
Speaker:ready to be proven wrong.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And let's see what the data shows.
Speaker:Well, thank you for that.
Speaker:That was the most comprehensive
Speaker:introduction I've ever had from anyone.
Speaker:So that was amazing.
Speaker:And it definitely just speaks testament
Speaker:not only to your character, but the
Speaker:amount of effort you put into this and
Speaker:just trying to overcome your own issues.
Speaker:Um, I'd love to come back to the tablets
Speaker:a little later on the conversation.
Speaker:That's okay.
Speaker:So I've got a few more questions there,
Speaker:uh, but just kind of a quick tangent.
Speaker:I mean, I can't do a podcast without
Speaker:talking, uh, going on tangent quickly.
Speaker:Uh, did you ever find out what was really
Speaker:triggering, uh, your, your RA or the
Speaker:other subsequent issues, what is sort of
Speaker:mold issue or anything like that?
Speaker:Or they, they, they think
Speaker:it was a viral infection.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Um, it might've hit me
Speaker:a little bit different.
Speaker:Uh, so my roommate at the time who was
Speaker:also a high level computing athlete, um,
Speaker:it hit him different.
Speaker:He, uh, had to go to
Speaker:the hospital a few times.
Speaker:He had pneumonia.
Speaker:He missed a few weeks of work.
Speaker:Um, he didn't have the
Speaker:long lasting effects I did.
Speaker:I think what might've contributed to what
Speaker:happened to me is about a month prior.
Speaker:Um, I stupidly competed in the CrossFit
Speaker:competition about two days
Speaker:after I'd had food poisoning.
Speaker:And that left me so wrecked that I had
Speaker:like borderline Rabdo.
Speaker:Like I couldn't walk up the stairs.
Speaker:Like I slept on the couch because like in
Speaker:my house, I was on the second floor and
Speaker:like, I couldn't make it up the stairs.
Speaker:So like for a couple of days, I slept on
Speaker:the couch downstairs as my legs were like
Speaker:shaking and, you know, not recovering.
Speaker:Um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Again, I should have dropped out of that
Speaker:competition, but I was 29 and stupid and
Speaker:thought I was invincible.
Speaker:So I imagine that gut disruption and
Speaker:severe stress following of trying to
Speaker:compete after food poisoning is what
Speaker:triggered the response
Speaker:to the virus that I got.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I, I, I, I'm not going to judge you.
Speaker:I grew up a competitive
Speaker:cyclist and, uh, it's different.
Speaker:It's a lovely sport.
Speaker:It's very safe until you fall off in
Speaker:which case it's not.
Speaker:But yeah, and I sort of
Speaker:trained myself into living.
Speaker:I gave myself, uh, a benign bradycardia,
Speaker:uh, used, yeah, same vibe.
Speaker:Used to sort of train until you threw up
Speaker:in your nose, bled, and then sort of
Speaker:wiped it down and just carried on.
Speaker:And this is, and then all of a sudden you
Speaker:hit that critical threshold and your 20s,
Speaker:where everything just
Speaker:starts to fall apart.
Speaker:There's a quote from a jujitsu competitor
Speaker:that I like quite a bit.
Speaker:Um, when you hit 30,
Speaker:you no longer get injured.
Speaker:You start collecting
Speaker:permanent disabilities.
Speaker:Like that.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:And I think, yeah, there's definitely a
Speaker:law of diminishing returns, as you know,
Speaker:when it comes to, uh, to exercise.
Speaker:And I suppose it's, it's, it's quite a
Speaker:nice sort of way to sort of segue into
Speaker:the rest of the conversation.
Speaker:It's a bit of an automatic stress is a
Speaker:good thing, but too much is detrimental.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, this is a book I'm writing that I
Speaker:hope to release by about July called the
Speaker:Stress Hacked and it's not
Speaker:just the body, it's the mind.
Speaker:So it's two books.
Speaker:Um, they meet in the center.
Speaker:You know, inverted kind of like yin yang,
Speaker:because we can't be strong in body
Speaker:without strength of mind and we can't be
Speaker:strong in the mind without health and
Speaker:strength and figure in the body.
Speaker:Um, but all of that, uh, I mean, hydrogen
Speaker:is a hormetic stress.
Speaker:It's just a very mild one.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And with every hormetic stress, whether
Speaker:it's emotional, psychological, whether
Speaker:it's physical, uh, you need a certain
Speaker:threshold for it to be therapeutic.
Speaker:But if you go too
Speaker:much, it can be harmful.
Speaker:And typically when you do too much, it's
Speaker:more harmful than the absence of it.
Speaker:And, uh, the right dose for any type of
Speaker:stress, whether it's physical or mental
Speaker:depends not just on the individual, but
Speaker:intra individual every day.
Speaker:What other stress do you have?
Speaker:What is your current state?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So that CrossFit competition that, that
Speaker:ruined me was no harder than any other
Speaker:one I'd done or my usual training.
Speaker:But because I just had food poisoning a
Speaker:couple of days before it was too hard.
Speaker:The entirety of that sort
Speaker:of LST at load as it were.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And this is what a lot of
Speaker:people don't understand.
Speaker:And what I see is the big problem that a
Speaker:lot of people, even medical doctors are
Speaker:recommending universal protocols.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That this is your longevity stack of like
Speaker:core meat expressors and everyone should
Speaker:do this exact thing every day.
Speaker:And it's insane.
Speaker:And it really speaks to poor
Speaker:comprehension of how hormesis works and
Speaker:how our physiology works.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, I couldn't agree more on this.
Speaker:I think it's definitely something we can
Speaker:come back to a bit later on.
Speaker:Um, yeah, my apologies.
Speaker:Uh, I'm the king of tangents.
Speaker:I am ADHD on top of everything else, but,
Speaker:uh, I'd like to maybe take a step back
Speaker:quickly if that's okay, Alex.
Speaker:And then, and talk more about, um, how
Speaker:molecular hydrogen is working now, uh, in
Speaker:our sort of initial discussion, I want
Speaker:you to go down the, the sort of the
Speaker:mechanism of hydrogen ions and how they
Speaker:sort of drive the production of ATP
Speaker:through the electron
Speaker:transfer chain, all of that.
Speaker:And you thankfully put me on the right
Speaker:track and, and sort of, uh, uh, yeah.
Speaker:Sort of pointed the conversation more
Speaker:towards sort of the semitic side of
Speaker:things, which is what we'll discuss now.
Speaker:Um, but as sort of a molecular level, I
Speaker:mean, you've, you've already sort of, uh,
Speaker:alluded to it with this discussion about
Speaker:hormesis, but how is molecular hydrogen
Speaker:fundamentally working to improve the
Speaker:function of the cell of the mitochondria
Speaker:and subsequently improve
Speaker:the health of the individual?
Speaker:It's closest to, to hormesis, but it's
Speaker:not really hormesis because we haven't
Speaker:found the upper limit
Speaker:where it's, uh, harmful.
Speaker:It's sort of like an anticipatory stress
Speaker:with which our body expects to be a
Speaker:stress, but is so mild that it never
Speaker:seems to appear toxic.
Speaker:Um, now we clearly
Speaker:evolved to anticipate this.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:if you look at our last
Speaker:universal common ancestor,
Speaker:it actually fed on hydrogen
Speaker:as its fuel source, right?
Speaker:That spawned all life on the planet.
Speaker:Um, our mitochondria came from
Speaker:eukaryotes, which was sort of like a
Speaker:handshake deal between, you know, a
Speaker:hydrogen producing and a hydrogen
Speaker:consuming, you know, organism and, uh,
Speaker:uh, went out to that, that carried on
Speaker:through us now in living things,
Speaker:including the, uh, the, the, the, the,
Speaker:the, the, the, humans, we all have
Speaker:bacteria that produces hydrogen gas and
Speaker:much more relevant to human evolution.
Speaker:Um, we make our H2
Speaker:endogenously by fermenting fiber.
Speaker:Now, if you look at, uh, the diet or
Speaker:ancestral diets in our hunter-gatherer
Speaker:stages before the last 10,000 years of
Speaker:modern horticulture, we were consuming
Speaker:100 to 150 grams of
Speaker:dietary fiber per day.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Tremendous amounts.
Speaker:Today, the average person in the Western
Speaker:world gets 10 to 15 grams, but that
Speaker:includes raw food vegans,
Speaker:who are getting like 60 to 80.
Speaker:The average person on a standard American
Speaker:diet, eating a fast food and takeout food
Speaker:diet, is getting zero to
Speaker:three grams of fiber a day.
Speaker:Want to talk about the carnivores?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Bacteria is like any other living thing.
Speaker:If you stop feeding it, it dies.
Speaker:We now know that even supplementing with
Speaker:fiber, for a lot of these people, once
Speaker:you hit middle age, you've had a poor
Speaker:diet, you haven't eaten fiber your life,
Speaker:the hydrogen producing bacteria have died
Speaker:off and what has taken over are
Speaker:methanogens, which are producing methane
Speaker:right instead and
Speaker:actually consuming hydrogen.
Speaker:So you end up with this hydrogen
Speaker:deficiency and hydrogen seems to be this
Speaker:ancient signal that we have.
Speaker:So yes, there's a very, very mild direct
Speaker:stress to the
Speaker:mitochondria that attenuates NFKB.
Speaker:So that's how it's regulating our
Speaker:inflammatory responses.
Speaker:It's activating the NRF2 pathway.
Speaker:That's how it's regulating the redox
Speaker:status, the harmony between our
Speaker:endogenous antioxidants and our
Speaker:beneficial stressors, right?
Speaker:Like nitric oxide and
Speaker:H2O2 and H2S and so forth.
Speaker:So hydrogen is kind of this supervisor.
Speaker:It's a signal that comes and the dials
Speaker:start getting turned.
Speaker:So hydrogen doesn't activate or inhibit
Speaker:anything universally.
Speaker:You look at all of these markers that we
Speaker:see in the literature and there's
Speaker:examples of hydrogen activating them or
Speaker:attenuating inhibiting them, right?
Speaker:Depending on the context, but always for
Speaker:a beneficial response.
Speaker:So for instance, in the longevity space,
Speaker:a lot of people talk about autophagy.
Speaker:When you think that you always want to
Speaker:activate autophagy, which is simply not
Speaker:true, there's a lot of instances where
Speaker:you do not want autophagy activated.
Speaker:So hydrogen in many instances activates
Speaker:autophagy, but in key instances in the
Speaker:research, it has completely inhibited
Speaker:autophagy, such as after drowning
Speaker:resuscitation, after
Speaker:heart failure, right?
Speaker:These are instances you don't want
Speaker:autophagy happening and
Speaker:hydrogen's inhibited them.
Speaker:It's the same thing with
Speaker:oxidative stress and inflammation.
Speaker:Now,
Speaker:these are important parts of our
Speaker:physiological function.
Speaker:What's dangerous about them is when
Speaker:they're chronically dysregulated, either
Speaker:too much or too little.
Speaker:More often than not, it's too much, but
Speaker:there are plenty of
Speaker:instances where it's too little.
Speaker:So for instance, a lot of antioxidants,
Speaker:like they, one don't work.
Speaker:The research has shown that high dose
Speaker:antioxidant therapy leads to higher
Speaker:all-cause mortality.
Speaker:Reductive stress.
Speaker:Yeah, reductive stress, exactly.
Speaker:So antioxidants can be good for some
Speaker:people, some of the time, because if
Speaker:you're in chronic oxidative stress and
Speaker:you have some more antioxidants, it can
Speaker:bring you back down.
Speaker:But if you're just loading up the dose
Speaker:and taking more and more and more, and
Speaker:you're doing that every day, you reach a
Speaker:point where you went to reductive stress,
Speaker:which is just as
Speaker:harmful as oxidative stress.
Speaker:Hydrogen actually is not doing this.
Speaker:It's regulating our
Speaker:endogenous productions.
Speaker:It's not working as a direct antioxidant.
Speaker:So there's some cool research in say rats
Speaker:to enforce swim tests.
Speaker:And this is a model that we use to
Speaker:evaluate stress, you
Speaker:know, exercise induced stress.
Speaker:In the hydrogen plus force swim test
Speaker:group, the rats actually see a higher
Speaker:spike in oxidative
Speaker:stress and inflammation.
Speaker:So their stress response gets
Speaker:potentiated, but then they rebound to
Speaker:homeostatic function faster.
Speaker:So it's as if they worked out
Speaker:harder and recovered quicker.
Speaker:So hydrogen is not blunting the the
Speaker:hermitic stress response, the adaptive
Speaker:stress response of
Speaker:stressors like exercise.
Speaker:It's in fact potentiating
Speaker:them, but then protecting
Speaker:against dysregulation and bringing you
Speaker:back to harmony faster.
Speaker:So all the jumbos can relax about them
Speaker:taking it's not like taking high dose of
Speaker:urgency off your workout and then just,
Speaker:yeah, it's not gonna
Speaker:bludger hypertrophy gains at all, right?
Speaker:It's actually gonna potentiate them.
Speaker:So that's really interesting.
Speaker:And this is what we're seeing.
Speaker:And hydrogen is doing
Speaker:this for a lot of markers.
Speaker:I know in our talks you
Speaker:mentioned PGC1 alpha, right?
Speaker:And a lot of these markers that are
Speaker:linked to things like caloric restriction
Speaker:and fasting, hydrogen seems to mimic them
Speaker:sometimes, you know,
Speaker:in the right context.
Speaker:Now, what I find very interesting, and I
Speaker:still don't have a full grasp on what
Speaker:this means from an evolutionary
Speaker:standpoint, but throughout our
Speaker:hunter-gatherer phase, our times of
Speaker:caloric restriction were typically the
Speaker:inability to hunt and
Speaker:secure meat and fat.
Speaker:So we would have relied on more
Speaker:plant-based food sources, which back then
Speaker:had far more fiber and
Speaker:were less calorically dense.
Speaker:So we would have been getting enough
Speaker:nutrients and enough fiber, but we
Speaker:wouldn't have been getting enough
Speaker:calories and enough protein, right?
Speaker:Going into this deep like fasting-like
Speaker:state, this caloric restriction that
Speaker:activates all these pathways.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:interestingly, during these
Speaker:times of famine and fasting,
Speaker:their hydrogen, endogenously, would have
Speaker:been amplified, like our ancestors,
Speaker:because they would have been eating more
Speaker:and more plant-based
Speaker:foods full of more fiber.
Speaker:So they would have been getting these
Speaker:huge erratic spikes of hydrogen, which
Speaker:perhaps protected them
Speaker:in these times of famine.
Speaker:And perhaps this is a signal that we've
Speaker:brought with us to modern times.
Speaker:So what's the
Speaker:protein-sparing effect, do you think?
Speaker:Well, we do know there's one interesting
Speaker:study in Drosophilia, where they
Speaker:stop food source on these fruit flies to
Speaker:see how long they survive.
Speaker:And the group that's been
Speaker:supplemented with molecular hydrogen,
Speaker:they survive for substantially longer.
Speaker:Then, you know, the
Speaker:fruit flies have the control.
Speaker:So there's some
Speaker:interesting factors there.
Speaker:Again, not only is it activating these
Speaker:caloric restriction-type pathways, but
Speaker:it's preventing death
Speaker:and harm from extended.
Speaker:So it's regulating our response to these
Speaker:physiological stressors.
Speaker:Yeah, that's fascinating.
Speaker:Okay, well, you've
Speaker:definitely answered all my questions.
Speaker:And I'm glad to see that you sort of at
Speaker:least agree on the fact that, well,
Speaker:sorry, post-cholesterol words, that you
Speaker:like my idea that it's going to also
Speaker:support mitochondrial biogenesis by way
Speaker:of potentially upregulating PGC1 alpha,
Speaker:which for the audience is a, I think, is
Speaker:technically speaking transcription
Speaker:factor, that then drives the production
Speaker:of more of these
Speaker:mitochondria within the body,
Speaker:which for most people, and which is
Speaker:something I think a lot of people seem to
Speaker:forget about is they don't realize that
Speaker:there is this high level of mitochondrial
Speaker:turnover that's constantly happening.
Speaker:And as you alluded to earlier, like
Speaker:everything else,
Speaker:mitochondria become damaged.
Speaker:And when you're in a highly inflamed
Speaker:state, you're going to not only lose the
Speaker:capacity of those mitochondria, but
Speaker:you're also going to
Speaker:lose mitochondria in tandem.
Speaker:I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with Dr.
Speaker:Robert Navier's work on
Speaker:the cell danger response.
Speaker:I'd be actually quite
Speaker:interested to see what he thinks.
Speaker:Are you familiar with
Speaker:the cell danger response?
Speaker:No, no, not off the top of my head.
Speaker:Okay, so Dr.
Speaker:Navier, it's more of a thing in the sort
Speaker:of the CFSME community.
Speaker:Obviously, people are struggling with,
Speaker:yeah, your chronic
Speaker:fatigue syndromes, but Dr.
Speaker:Navier posits essentially that when the
Speaker:cell is stressed, the mitochondria
Speaker:particularly is going to go into what's
Speaker:called a cell danger response state.
Speaker:And it's going to inhibit it, which is
Speaker:going to inhibit the ability to utilize
Speaker:fatty acids to drive ATP to production
Speaker:through oxidative phosphorylation, and
Speaker:that they're then going to
Speaker:sort of rely more on glycolysis.
Speaker:And in doing so, you are going to down
Speaker:regulate the metabolism of that cell to
Speaker:the extent that it actually is not able
Speaker:to, yeah, that you then start to lose the
Speaker:ability of that cell to effectively
Speaker:communicate with neighboring cells, but
Speaker:also just to produce ATP
Speaker:in the effective range.
Speaker:And you cycle through what is essentially
Speaker:cell danger, CDR1, 2, and 3.
Speaker:And individuals who are in this CDR state
Speaker:tend to sort of get stuck in CDR1 and 2,
Speaker:which are these
Speaker:states of cellular arrest.
Speaker:And I'm just sort of trying to plug it
Speaker:all together here, but I would be kind of
Speaker:interested to see what
Speaker:molecular hydrogen would do
Speaker:just with regards to his work.
Speaker:I'd be happy to send you
Speaker:this information on his work.
Speaker:Yeah, send it all, I'll
Speaker:take a deeper look for sure.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I think it's definitely one of
Speaker:the metabolic theories that explains a
Speaker:lot of cellular dysfunction and not only
Speaker:chronic fatigue, but why people get stuck
Speaker:in a state of chronic inflammation and in
Speaker:a state of chronic hyper
Speaker:immune reactivity as well.
Speaker:Alex, I'd love to have a deeper dive into
Speaker:hydrogen and the gut.
Speaker:Now, I know you've talked about this
Speaker:previously, and maybe I'm butchering
Speaker:this, so please feel free
Speaker:to correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker:But from what I understand, hydrogen is
Speaker:involved in the production of short-chain
Speaker:fatty acids, is that correct?
Speaker:So we don't know the exact mechanisms
Speaker:yet, but we have shown in research that
Speaker:it can increase certain short-chain fatty
Speaker:acids like propionic
Speaker:acid, butyrate acetate.
Speaker:There's been quite a number of studies
Speaker:showing improvements to the microbiome.
Speaker:We have again shown with the tablets that
Speaker:we can reduce calprotectin, so there is a
Speaker:lot of gut protective
Speaker:effects that are happening.
Speaker:We can activate hormones in the gut, like
Speaker:we've regulated ghrelin and GLP1 in
Speaker:clinical trials and pre-clinical trials.
Speaker:So there's a lot of gut-based responses
Speaker:that are happening that mechanistically
Speaker:we do need to uncover more, but it could
Speaker:in part be due to this constant ebb and
Speaker:flow of gases that we have in our gut
Speaker:right now, and how modern lifestyle has
Speaker:dramatically shifted this dynamic away
Speaker:from what we evolved to expect.
Speaker:So by supplementing with high-dose
Speaker:hydrogen, especially for the gut water
Speaker:because it's getting into your gut, this
Speaker:could be basically substituting for what
Speaker:we're lacking in our lifestyle.
Speaker:Okay, and just on that train of thought,
Speaker:if you've got more of these short-chain
Speaker:fatty acids, one would assume that you're
Speaker:going to sort of develop more acrimensia
Speaker:and other beneficial bacteria.
Speaker:They're not only going to increase.
Speaker:There is some research that hydrogen can
Speaker:increase acrimensia too.
Speaker:Okay, or directly.
Speaker:Yeah, well, that supplementing with
Speaker:hydrogen water leads to
Speaker:higher levels of acrimensia.
Speaker:Now, whether that's
Speaker:direct or not, we don't know.
Speaker:Most of the things hydrogen is doing is
Speaker:indirect because when it's tipping the
Speaker:scales on our system and it's dialing up,
Speaker:dialing down in all these various ways,
Speaker:there are countless
Speaker:downstream changes that occur.
Speaker:So with everything hydrogen, it seems to
Speaker:be largely systemic, at least to the
Speaker:tissues that are
Speaker:being properly saturated.
Speaker:So it's still unraveling the rat's nest
Speaker:of what's downstream of what
Speaker:in terms of hydrogen's action.
Speaker:Yeah, and then just on the GLP1 side of
Speaker:things, have you done any investigations
Speaker:or research as your team into the
Speaker:metabolic effects of hydrogen, maybe say
Speaker:relative something like GLP1 agonist?
Speaker:Is there any data out there to show that
Speaker:these compounds are effective at helping
Speaker:to regulate those satiety hormones?
Speaker:So we have, I think it's now seven
Speaker:clinical trials showing substantial
Speaker:improvements in body composition and
Speaker:metabolic health, including ones that are
Speaker:under peer review right now.
Speaker:We've regulated, like I mentioned, GLP1.
Speaker:We returned the peaks and valleys to
Speaker:ghrelin showing proper hunger responses.
Speaker:We've modulated the neurochemistry
Speaker:involved in satiety.
Speaker:We consistently show improvements in
Speaker:various metabolic markers as well, such
Speaker:as blood sugar insulin, cholesterol,
Speaker:triglycerides, everything like that.
Speaker:Again, it's going to be a lot more subtle
Speaker:than throttling a GLP1 agonist full time,
Speaker:but hydrogen isn't a sledgehammer, right?
Speaker:What it is, is it's a fine tool to
Speaker:recalibrate and then over time, your body
Speaker:slowly gets more and more efficient and
Speaker:does things more and more properly in how
Speaker:we evolve to behave.
Speaker:But it's not going to be
Speaker:shocking changes overnight.
Speaker:We're seeing the best metabolic effects
Speaker:after three months, six months.
Speaker:The longer you take hydrogen, the better
Speaker:the results are getting.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I mean, that makes perfect
Speaker:sense, of course, because I think people
Speaker:take this sort of very reductionist view of appetite at the moment
Speaker:anywhere that it's just GLP1.
Speaker:But when you're in an inflamed state, and
Speaker:as most people struggling with metabolic
Speaker:disease are, you're going to have high
Speaker:levels of inflammation, you're going to
Speaker:have low levels of dopamine, you're going
Speaker:to have dysregulated ghrelin,
Speaker:dysregulated leptin signaling, all of
Speaker:which are going to
Speaker:feed into this cascade.
Speaker:It's not just about the GLP1.
Speaker:And subsequently, yeah, if you can work
Speaker:to improve that environment, to sort of
Speaker:re-model or regain that homeostasis, I
Speaker:would have met with something like
Speaker:molecular hydrogen, I would assume that
Speaker:you are then rebalancing the entire
Speaker:satiety system within the body.
Speaker:And I suppose it's just taking a sort of
Speaker:a root scores approach to it apart from a
Speaker:post as you sort of mentioned, just
Speaker:that's rocking GLP1 and hoping to god you
Speaker:don't end up with
Speaker:pancreatitis in 10 years time.
Speaker:Yeah, and that's the thing.
Speaker:Hydrogen is, it's not
Speaker:acting like how we define a drug.
Speaker:It's not having a direct effect on a
Speaker:certain receptor,
Speaker:right, or enzyme in the body.
Speaker:Like hydrogen is playing this regulatory
Speaker:role, like a supervisor within our cell
Speaker:that's directing subtle changes, and then
Speaker:our body starts to correct its own path.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:What do you think about the idea of sort
Speaker:of running a GLP1 alongside
Speaker:something like molecular hydrogen?
Speaker:I know it's a bit of a blunt, a sort of
Speaker:low hanging question, and definitely
Speaker:something that you'd want to
Speaker:sort of just clip on a reel.
Speaker:But I think that's something that people
Speaker:would want to be interested in.
Speaker:Is that, I mean, just speaking from your
Speaker:own position, would that be something
Speaker:that you would sort of well endorse, but
Speaker:at least
Speaker:hypothetically say is a good idea?
Speaker:So actually, this gets into what I think
Speaker:is the future of the research.
Speaker:And we've now published a number, I think
Speaker:half a dozen of preclinical trials.
Speaker:And we have many more that are either
Speaker:under peer review, under manuscript prep,
Speaker:or in planning, where we're utilizing
Speaker:concurrent use of the hydrogen tablet
Speaker:delivering an approved pharmaceutical
Speaker:ingredient, right, an active
Speaker:pharmaceutical ingredient.
Speaker:What we're finding over and over again is
Speaker:that hydrogen is acting synergistically
Speaker:to potentiate the responses of these
Speaker:drugs, while also
Speaker:mitigating the side effects, right?
Speaker:So it could lead to futures where a lot
Speaker:of these drugs, we can be delivering them
Speaker:in much smaller dosages, also reducing
Speaker:the side effects, getting better results
Speaker:and improving people's health, because
Speaker:there are many, many instances where we
Speaker:do need direct pharmaceutical
Speaker:intervention, you know,
Speaker:for a lot of specific states.
Speaker:So actually, there's certain, you know,
Speaker:GLP1 agonist molecules that are available
Speaker:in say powder form that we've identified
Speaker:on our shortlist to be doing research to
Speaker:look at the combination usage of them
Speaker:with the hydrogen
Speaker:tablet as a delivery method.
Speaker:And this is a future channel I am going
Speaker:into that we're actively going down.
Speaker:It is exploring the use of the hydrogen
Speaker:tablet as what's called a, you know, a
Speaker:pharmaceutical
Speaker:excipient that enhances the
Speaker:availability of the compound
Speaker:or reduce side effects, like basically a
Speaker:functional excipient.
Speaker:So I don't want to
Speaker:register hydrogen as a drug.
Speaker:I don't think it fits
Speaker:into the drug dynamic.
Speaker:I don't think it works as a standalone
Speaker:drug on any one disease, but
Speaker:basically getting it through the
Speaker:regulations like this, a whole wide array
Speaker:of pharmaceuticals could be added to the
Speaker:tablet delivery method, work
Speaker:complementary or synergistically, reduce
Speaker:side effects, and basically
Speaker:be great for everyone involved.
Speaker:From pharmaceutical companies who who are
Speaker:putting in less of their expensive
Speaker:ingredient to get the same effect and
Speaker:probably charging the same on the market.
Speaker:So making more profit in that sense, but
Speaker:for consumers getting better health
Speaker:results with lower side effects, you
Speaker:know, and better
Speaker:long-term improved health.
Speaker:So it's something I'm
Speaker:really excited about.
Speaker:And that's what we're going to be going
Speaker:down more the next few
Speaker:years, five years, 10 years.
Speaker:I mean, that's incredible.
Speaker:I mean, I was aware of the fact you were
Speaker:compounding America hydrogen with various
Speaker:nutraceutical agents, things like PQQ, I
Speaker:think chromium as well.
Speaker:There are a few tablets in the market
Speaker:that you've got that include those
Speaker:specific molecules, but I didn't have any
Speaker:inclination or understanding that you're
Speaker:going down the the
Speaker:pharmaceutical rabbit hole.
Speaker:So that's incredibly interesting.
Speaker:And yeah, I look forward to
Speaker:seeing the results of that.
Speaker:Unfortunately, I'm a synthetic chemist.
Speaker:I'm a biochemist, so I
Speaker:can't offer you insight there.
Speaker:But yeah, that sounds fascinating,
Speaker:something I'll definitely keep my finger
Speaker:on the pulse, the pulse on.
Speaker:Now,
Speaker:Alex, I've heard you sort of talk about
Speaker:and discuss various other ways in which
Speaker:hydrogen can be introduced to the body.
Speaker:Speaking of other
Speaker:ideas you have, I suppose.
Speaker:So looking at it from a topical
Speaker:standpoint, I know it's inhaled.
Speaker:Do you think that there's a sort of a
Speaker:solid future there as well?
Speaker:I mean, I foresee molecular hydrogen
Speaker:being utilized from a topical standpoint
Speaker:to maybe deal with autoimmune conditions
Speaker:like exomens, rices, where there's a high
Speaker:inflammatory load locally on the skin.
Speaker:And obviously, I assume too, just
Speaker:speculating here that there would be some
Speaker:sort of anti-aging effects from a
Speaker:different sort of...
Speaker:Yeah, wrinkle reduction.
Speaker:There's actually research showing reduced
Speaker:wrinkles with bathing in hydrogen water
Speaker:and algae leaves on fruits.
Speaker:So I think the future, we're going to
Speaker:drink it, we're going to bathe in it, and
Speaker:we're going to inhale it.
Speaker:And when you look at all three of these
Speaker:routes of administration, they all have
Speaker:different pharmacokinetics.
Speaker:They saturate different
Speaker:tissues to different extents.
Speaker:So there is some crossover, but we're
Speaker:going to be able to identify better and
Speaker:better as time goes on.
Speaker:For this model,
Speaker:we want to say bathe and
Speaker:inhale or bathe and drink.
Speaker:And we're going to be able to develop
Speaker:better suggested protocols.
Speaker:Now, I do want to say
Speaker:again with all hermudic agents,
Speaker:developing these standards in
Speaker:double-blind RCTs are important from a
Speaker:population standpoint, but every person
Speaker:is going to have different results and
Speaker:you're going to want to adjust it based
Speaker:on your current state.
Speaker:But we will be able to identify at least
Speaker:that inhalation is better for this,
Speaker:drinking is better for that.
Speaker:For instance, what I'll say, bathing,
Speaker:obviously it's getting to a higher
Speaker:concentration, far higher in your skin,
Speaker:in your muscle and
Speaker:connective tissues and such.
Speaker:Inhaling, it's obviously
Speaker:getting higher to your lungs.
Speaker:It's getting substantially higher to your
Speaker:muscles and skeletal tissue than
Speaker:drinking, but not bathing.
Speaker:It's getting higher to your brain than
Speaker:drinking, but drinking the water is also
Speaker:activating gut derived hormones like
Speaker:ghrelin, which have
Speaker:an effect on the brain.
Speaker:So I think for brain issues,
Speaker:you want to inhale and drink.
Speaker:Drinking is obviously
Speaker:getting to your gut the best.
Speaker:It's interacting with
Speaker:the microbiome the best.
Speaker:It's getting to your liver
Speaker:at the highest concentration.
Speaker:So all of the metabolic outcomes of
Speaker:hydrogen are our best through drinking
Speaker:high concentration water, but we're going
Speaker:to be finding out more
Speaker:and more as time goes on.
Speaker:And this is a real area of research focus
Speaker:to figure out which method at what dose
Speaker:is optimal for what condition.
Speaker:And I've dove into the inhalation space
Speaker:where we're just gearing up to announce
Speaker:the soft launch of Inhale H2.
Speaker:That's a project that myself and Dr.
Speaker:Tyler LeBaron have
Speaker:worked on for seven years.
Speaker:He's joined us as our
Speaker:chief scientific officer.
Speaker:So this is the first product he has ever
Speaker:endorsed because he's the co-inventor and
Speaker:it is truly new and novel.
Speaker:We are the first inhalation device on the
Speaker:market that matches what
Speaker:can be done in the research.
Speaker:You can basically choose
Speaker:anywhere from 1% up to 4%
Speaker:with every decimal point in between of
Speaker:hydrogen and your time.
Speaker:But the key is
Speaker:it's a full
Speaker:re-breathing mask with a bladder.
Speaker:We've developed the system
Speaker:to mimic human breathing.
Speaker:So every breath you take is that
Speaker:controlled exact percentage of hydrogen.
Speaker:Whereas with these cannulas,
Speaker:you might breathe in a liter, two liters
Speaker:at once in a deep breath,
Speaker:but that's in one second.
Speaker:And now you didn't get
Speaker:100% of that hydrogen in.
Speaker:That breath is maybe 0.1% or 1% depending
Speaker:on the flow rate of H2 because these
Speaker:nasal cannulas are constant flow rate and
Speaker:they're trickling in.
Speaker:And they're a fraction of what your
Speaker:actual resting rate of inhalation based
Speaker:on minute ventilation
Speaker:and tidal volume are.
Speaker:And most of the H2 is just wrapping up
Speaker:straight out of your mouth.
Speaker:Yeah, it's sort of a Hindenburg wake that
Speaker:happened right there.
Speaker:Yeah, so we developed this machine to
Speaker:mimic human breathing and to work like
Speaker:they're not using any of these machines
Speaker:from China or Japan
Speaker:in the clinical trials.
Speaker:They're mixing gas tanks and sending them
Speaker:to 60 or 100 liter a minute flow rates so
Speaker:that every breath you take
Speaker:is guaranteed to be that dose.
Speaker:We figured how to do this with these
Speaker:one-way valves and this inflatable
Speaker:bladder, where even at a 12 liter a
Speaker:minute flow rate, you can guarantee that
Speaker:every breath you take
Speaker:is the exact percentage.
Speaker:Yeah, I believe again, correct me if I'm
Speaker:wrong, but I think the issue with the
Speaker:Japanese units is that they just
Speaker:under-dosed the amount of hydrogen.
Speaker:They got so wrong.
Speaker:Yeah, they got so wrong.
Speaker:Yeah, so you ended up underdosing it.
Speaker:Yeah, so basically, we breathe at rest,
Speaker:like say sleeping 68 liters a minute.
Speaker:As we're sitting talking at a computer
Speaker:like this, we might breathe 10 liters a
Speaker:minute, 12 liters a minute even.
Speaker:Most of these machines at the 4% gas are
Speaker:at a constant flow rate of
Speaker:one or two liters a minute.
Speaker:Now, at a constant flow rate, so it's
Speaker:just coming in at a constant rate, you'd
Speaker:actually need 60 to 100 liters a minute
Speaker:to make sure that every
Speaker:breath you're taking is at 4%.
Speaker:So that's what we've resolved.
Speaker:All you can breathe is from the bag.
Speaker:Everything you get is from our reservoir,
Speaker:which is a bladder that
Speaker:fills up and then contracts.
Speaker:So you can open the door and see the bag
Speaker:filling up, contracting with your breath
Speaker:and know that everything
Speaker:you're getting is just 4%.
Speaker:That's incredible.
Speaker:What's the ET on that project again?
Speaker:So our betas got great feedback.
Speaker:We've made all the changes.
Speaker:We're actually just finalizing more of
Speaker:the processing details.
Speaker:We're putting out a soft launch offer.
Speaker:So we have such overwhelming support
Speaker:between myself and Dr.
Speaker:LeBaron's connections.
Speaker:Everyone wants this machine.
Speaker:The last thing we want to do is order
Speaker:30,000 of them and find that there's a
Speaker:problem, like a small problem on the one
Speaker:that derails our launch.
Speaker:So we're doing a lot of things.
Speaker:We're doing a limited launch of a large
Speaker:but relatively small amount compared to
Speaker:what the demand is of some really trusted
Speaker:networks who know both Tyler and I well
Speaker:and know that we're
Speaker:going to treat them right.
Speaker:Because again, even if
Speaker:everything's great on the machine,
Speaker:ordering 30,000 machines, selling 10,000
Speaker:machines a month or something, it's going
Speaker:to be difficult to scale up enough
Speaker:service techs like engineers and customer
Speaker:service and everything to make sure
Speaker:everyone's getting the experience and the
Speaker:support that they deserve
Speaker:and that we want to give them.
Speaker:So that's why we're doing this soft
Speaker:launch test order to make sure that we
Speaker:have the infrastructure enough to scale
Speaker:up to make sure that everyone is getting
Speaker:a very high level experience.
Speaker:Yeah, well, I'll
Speaker:definitely start saving my pennies.
Speaker:Just quickly on that one again.
Speaker:So is this going to be sort of direct to
Speaker:consumer or do you sort of foresee it
Speaker:being a sort of a
Speaker:clinical tool to begin with?
Speaker:Yeah, so we have a lot of networks of
Speaker:spas and functional practitioners that
Speaker:want to be onboarding these, but they'll
Speaker:also be the direct consumer.
Speaker:Okay, that's brilliant.
Speaker:Well, that gives me a bit of hope then.
Speaker:Alex, I want to be aware of your time, of
Speaker:course, but I don't think we could have a
Speaker:conversation about molecular hydrogen
Speaker:without at least not quickly discussing
Speaker:hydrogen generators.
Speaker:Now, as I mentioned earlier, I've
Speaker:listened to a few past cards you've done
Speaker:just in preparation for this one.
Speaker:And I know that they, it's just based on
Speaker:what you said, the past
Speaker:that they do seem to struggle.
Speaker:I know you've mentioned something called
Speaker:Henry's Law and that there's
Speaker:an issue with gaskets there.
Speaker:And the fact that these units can't
Speaker:necessarily produce the amount of
Speaker:hydrogen that they do on day one, on
Speaker:maybe day five or day 10.
Speaker:Is this something that you
Speaker:envisage maybe solving yourself?
Speaker:Is this a problem that
Speaker:you would like to tackle?
Speaker:Or is it sort of a bit outside of your
Speaker:wheelhouse at this point?
Speaker:So funny enough, I have a patent on a
Speaker:bottle that uses the
Speaker:tablet to generate hydrogen
Speaker:that I developed years ago.
Speaker:And we knew all these
Speaker:problems were existed.
Speaker:And we didn't use Chinese engineers.
Speaker:We use engineers well
Speaker:in Canada at the time,
Speaker:ordered all the parts in, built them
Speaker:ourselves by hand with
Speaker:this engineering firm.
Speaker:What we were getting like concentrated 13
Speaker:parts per million in these
Speaker:prototypes we built, right?
Speaker:So stable, clear, you can drink, we
Speaker:thought there was going to be great
Speaker:applications for this, but even getting
Speaker:gaskets that were rated like five times
Speaker:higher than what we needed,
Speaker:not a single one of the units lasted 10
Speaker:uses before the gaskets were separating.
Speaker:But even if the gaskets get better, what
Speaker:we started noticing is the pressure,
Speaker:because we're getting to 130, 140 PSI of
Speaker:pressure, it was
Speaker:starting to unscrew the bolts
Speaker:from the force.
Speaker:So we were getting leaking
Speaker:from all sorts of angles.
Speaker:And I want to
Speaker:say that just think about this concept.
Speaker:This table that my computer is on, maybe
Speaker:it's rated for 200 pounds.
Speaker:And say I take a 40 pound weight, and I
Speaker:drop it from a couple
Speaker:inches once, table's fine.
Speaker:But you just keep picking that up and
Speaker:doing it five times a day, every day.
Speaker:That reaches a point and not too long
Speaker:where the table breaks.
Speaker:Is it a point limit to material fatigue?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker:So this is how these pressurized bottles
Speaker:work is yes, no matter how
Speaker:high up you go in the rating,
Speaker:it's that repeated below
Speaker:pressure, which eventually breaks.
Speaker:And just think about how a drop of water
Speaker:can carve through a mountain,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Just a constant drop over and over.
Speaker:In time, it will break.
Speaker:So the question isn't if these machines
Speaker:can ever not break, they
Speaker:will always break, right?
Speaker:It's just how much does it cost to make
Speaker:sure that they last six months instead of
Speaker:six days to a couple weeks?
Speaker:And how much does that cost to do?
Speaker:So none of these manufacturers seem to
Speaker:have to be improving on this, which tells
Speaker:me that to make improvements is going to
Speaker:drive up the cost so much for not a good
Speaker:return on longevity.
Speaker:And like I said,
Speaker:we were rated, I can't remember, but our
Speaker:gaskets were rated to something like 750
Speaker:PSI or something like that.
Speaker:And still, they all
Speaker:broke under under 10 uses.
Speaker:So let me get this right.
Speaker:So it's a bad solution relative to, say,
Speaker:the tablets, which have a low barrier to
Speaker:engine terms and costs have a high yield
Speaker:in terms of hydrogen that they are.
Speaker:And they're consistent every time.
Speaker:So even at their best, these bottles that
Speaker:are getting up to five parts per million.
Speaker:Well, that's five parts per million and
Speaker:typically 250 milliliters.
Speaker:So that's 1.25 milligrams of each tube.
Speaker:We're getting 12 parts per million in 500
Speaker:milliliters if you prepare and drink it
Speaker:as we suggest, which is
Speaker:six milligrams of each tube.
Speaker:So we're getting close to like five times
Speaker:as much hydrogen when
Speaker:these bottles are new.
Speaker:And then all of a sudden, a month later,
Speaker:now we're getting 30,
Speaker:40 times more hydrogen.
Speaker:So even when they're brand new, they are
Speaker:not getting close to the
Speaker:dosage that we're getting.
Speaker:And they break pretty fast.
Speaker:And not just even if they solve the
Speaker:gasket issue, there's a secondary issue
Speaker:of the membranes
Speaker:slowly start breaking down.
Speaker:And as they break down, maybe they're
Speaker:releasing heavy metals.
Speaker:We don't have the data on that yet.
Speaker:They're a consumer device.
Speaker:So they're not legally mandated to post a
Speaker:long-term safety kind of info like that.
Speaker:We know that DuPont has put season to
Speaker:cyst to all the Chinese manufacturers
Speaker:that they're not allowed to use their
Speaker:membrane because their membranes aren't
Speaker:rated for contact with something that's
Speaker:for human consumption.
Speaker:So if DuPont is stopping their sales,
Speaker:saying that this is an intended for human
Speaker:consumption, that tells
Speaker:us DuPont knows something.
Speaker:Or at least to me, it suggests DuPont
Speaker:might know something that the Chinese
Speaker:manufacturers don't yet.
Speaker:So they've almost all switched to their
Speaker:own membranes now, because DuPont has
Speaker:removed the ability to use theirs from so
Speaker:many of these manufacturers.
Speaker:And those I assume are
Speaker:questionable as well.
Speaker:I'd just like to see the data.
Speaker:I don't want to say definitely this is
Speaker:going to deliver this or be harmful.
Speaker:It's just too many questions that I
Speaker:wouldn't personally use it
Speaker:until those are answered.
Speaker:But then the final kicker is to make
Speaker:these machines, one, you don't want glass
Speaker:because that becomes a bomb or shrapnel.
Speaker:So you have to use plastic.
Speaker:And then with this repeated
Speaker:pressurization over and over again, how
Speaker:many microplastics and PFAS are you
Speaker:getting into the water?
Speaker:So that's another question.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:Like I said, I think it's just finding a
Speaker:complex solution to a problem that
Speaker:already has a simple
Speaker:answer, in this case, tablets.
Speaker:Alex, you've been amazing truly, and
Speaker:maybe it's just me, but I get way more
Speaker:starstruck talking to someone like you
Speaker:than I ever would a Tom Cruise type.
Speaker:Before I let you go, though, and I do
Speaker:need to let you go, I'm aware of that,
Speaker:would you be okay if we just ran through
Speaker:a few rapidish fire questions quickly?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay, brilliant.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So just off the bat,
Speaker:you mentioned this a second ago, but
Speaker:what's the best way to
Speaker:use molecular hydrogen pads?
Speaker:I think that the best way is
Speaker:one, room temperature water.
Speaker:I designed it for room temperature water.
Speaker:Now, the reason for that is we can't
Speaker:really guzzle or chug
Speaker:cold water or hot water.
Speaker:So we designed it to react ideally in
Speaker:room temperature water.
Speaker:You don't want it to be highly alkaline
Speaker:and not distilled either.
Speaker:So you want a little bit of electrolytes
Speaker:like TDS in the water, but really
Speaker:anywhere from three parts per million to
Speaker:200 parts per million.
Speaker:So basically every bottled water on the
Speaker:market and every re mineralizing RO
Speaker:system and every tap water source other
Speaker:than if you're in a well with super hard
Speaker:water is going to work fine.
Speaker:Just don't use alkaline ionized water or
Speaker:highly alkaline mineral water.
Speaker:Don't use carbonated water, which I know
Speaker:is a lot more popular in the UK and
Speaker:Europe than here because then the
Speaker:hydrogen is competing with the CO2 for
Speaker:partial pressure and the CO2
Speaker:wins and it sparges out the H2.
Speaker:That would screw with the
Speaker:zeta potential, is that right?
Speaker:Yeah, so I mean, one, it's going to
Speaker:disrupt H2, only so much can stay in.
Speaker:It's not going to allow saturated H2.
Speaker:There's going to be more collisions which
Speaker:increases the bubble size
Speaker:of the quasi dissolved H2.
Speaker:So it's just going to
Speaker:lead to a bad result.
Speaker:I'd say 500 milliliters is what we
Speaker:designed this for, but the best volume of
Speaker:water is what you can guzzle rapidly.
Speaker:So for instance, in the elderly trials,
Speaker:we use 250 milliliters and most of the
Speaker:middle aged like metabolic
Speaker:trials, we use 330 milliliters.
Speaker:So I guzzle a liter first thing in the
Speaker:morning, but I'm a big guy and so
Speaker:exercise a lot and I can chug a liter
Speaker:first thing in the morning
Speaker:with a lot of my supplements.
Speaker:Most people can't.
Speaker:So I put a few tablets in a
Speaker:liter and then chug it down.
Speaker:But again, most people can't do that.
Speaker:I will say you want to
Speaker:take it on an empty stomach.
Speaker:I do have IP demonstrating that hydrogen
Speaker:in an aqueous solution that has dissolved
Speaker:polysaccharides retains the H2
Speaker:nanobubbles and creates gels and foams.
Speaker:So that's going to
Speaker:happen in your stomach.
Speaker:And actually there is data like someone
Speaker:unaware of my pending IP at the time
Speaker:about this made these
Speaker:hydrogen rich like jello.
Speaker:It was a physicist in Vegas that I ended
Speaker:up talking to a bunch and he dropped the
Speaker:project because he found out about my IP.
Speaker:But they were measuring the hydrogen
Speaker:leaving in the urine after.
Speaker:I'm like, well, if it's all leaving in
Speaker:the urine, then it's not
Speaker:circulating in your body.
Speaker:So hydrogen works by
Speaker:like other hermetic stressors, you want
Speaker:this spike and then
Speaker:this return to baseline.
Speaker:So you want to peak in a valley.
Speaker:So you don't want to eat it with a meal
Speaker:heavy and like carbohydrates or fiber
Speaker:because they're going to retain the H2
Speaker:and it's not going to hit that rapid
Speaker:spike into yourselves.
Speaker:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker:Next one.
Speaker:Have you ever thrown down a tablet down
Speaker:the hatch and then
Speaker:chased it down with water?
Speaker:Have you sort of ever done that?
Speaker:So I have, I don't recommend it because I
Speaker:have when I'm in a rush, I know Dr.
Speaker:LaBaron talks about it.
Speaker:He does it when he's in an absolute rush
Speaker:and doesn't like he's late walking up the
Speaker:door, I'm late walking up the door and I
Speaker:don't have like a minute to spare.
Speaker:Why you wouldn't want to do that is if
Speaker:you don't drink enough water, right?
Speaker:And then you might get some
Speaker:unpleasantness in your gut.
Speaker:So we can't recommend that.
Speaker:People are really, really bad at judging
Speaker:what enough water is.
Speaker:You know, I see even
Speaker:when I see people like,
Speaker:even people I'm friends with or family
Speaker:members, I'll see them drop like a tablet
Speaker:in like 50 milliliters of water.
Speaker:And I'm like, what do you
Speaker:think is going on there?
Speaker:Like, you know, stop doing that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I see that and know that if I tell
Speaker:people, yeah, you can swallow it and
Speaker:chase it with water, they're going to
Speaker:swallow the tablet and take a sip.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And now that's not nearly enough water.
Speaker:So you're not going to get
Speaker:the same therapeutic effect.
Speaker:But moreover, you're going to potentially
Speaker:make your stomach upset.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And long term use of that, maybe you're
Speaker:going to develop an ulcer or something.
Speaker:So don't do that.
Speaker:I mean, there is a way to do it safely,
Speaker:but there's not a way to advise it to
Speaker:people who are going to listen and do it
Speaker:safely, if that makes sense.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Is any, sorry, quick tangent on that one.
Speaker:Is any exothermic
Speaker:reaction or heat developed?
Speaker:That would also be an issue, I'd imagine.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Moving on quickly then.
Speaker:Besides molecular hydrogen, what single
Speaker:molecule excites you the most when it
Speaker:comes to supporting health,
Speaker:supporting human longevity?
Speaker:That's in the pipeline, perhaps, or
Speaker:something that may already exist.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I know we've
Speaker:talked about Tessa Fencine.
Speaker:I really like that molecule.
Speaker:I'm getting it off the black market.
Speaker:I basically quit drinking and have no
Speaker:desire to drink alcohol
Speaker:since I started Tessa Fencine.
Speaker:I have much less cravings for food.
Speaker:Other than that, it's hard
Speaker:to pinpoint a single molecule.
Speaker:I probably take 100 pills a day, and then
Speaker:liters of supplemental liquids and stuff.
Speaker:So it's really, really difficult to
Speaker:pinpoint one thing, and
Speaker:especially with everything,
Speaker:it depends on the context.
Speaker:For instance,
Speaker:something like methyl folate.
Speaker:When I was getting off Tessa ulcerin
Speaker:replacement and trying
Speaker:to regain my fertility,
Speaker:high dose methyl folate, like five
Speaker:milligrams a day, has been linked to
Speaker:improving male fertility.
Speaker:But you only want to do that for a month
Speaker:or two, because if you're doing that long
Speaker:term and you're not
Speaker:countering it with other B-wedding...
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, because
Speaker:absolutely, with something like TMG.
Speaker:Too many methyl donors.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:It's going to lead to some problems.
Speaker:Definitely.
Speaker:I mean, the moment you start playing
Speaker:around with the methyl folate cycle, the
Speaker:folate cycle, you've got to be careful
Speaker:and you've got to have an understanding
Speaker:of your genetics as well.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So I'll skip one.
Speaker:And the final question is, what's the
Speaker:next for you on the health front?
Speaker:Obviously, you've been through this
Speaker:journey, and I know
Speaker:there's still a long way to go.
Speaker:I think you said you were a candidate for
Speaker:a few different operations.
Speaker:What is next to you in terms of you
Speaker:trying to optimize your health, if you
Speaker:don't mind me asking?
Speaker:So with me, it's always
Speaker:just trying to improve.
Speaker:And I've been getting
Speaker:rounds of stem cells.
Speaker:They've helped a little bit.
Speaker:I need to keep doing that.
Speaker:I'm really actually excited about some
Speaker:other protocols that we're seeing in
Speaker:rodents, but haven't
Speaker:jumped to humans yet.
Speaker:There's protocols where they're doing
Speaker:micro drilling into joints, even if
Speaker:there's just very small pieces of it and
Speaker:injecting them not just with stem cells,
Speaker:but various peptides and
Speaker:block building molecules.
Speaker:They're able to completely
Speaker:regrow joints in rodents now.
Speaker:But there isn't even the highest end
Speaker:clinic in the world that's trying these
Speaker:protocols in humans.
Speaker:So I'd say that is something I am
Speaker:desperately looking forward to, to try
Speaker:and actually regrow the
Speaker:joints that I've lost.
Speaker:Yeah, I can only imagine.
Speaker:Alex, you've been a star.
Speaker:Truly, I appreciate this
Speaker:conversation more than you know.
Speaker:Where can people find you if they do want
Speaker:to learn more about you, if they do not
Speaker:want to learn more
Speaker:about hydrogen tablets?
Speaker:I assume you would point them to HRW.
Speaker:And then I know we mentioned it earlier,
Speaker:but just yet, plug your
Speaker:book that's coming out shortly.
Speaker:Yeah, so alexternava.com is my website.
Speaker:My Instagram is the same at Alexternava.
Speaker:I have a ResearchGate account that you
Speaker:can read some of the papers that I've
Speaker:published or co-authored on.
Speaker:Again, it's Alexternava, my ResearchGate.
Speaker:For the tablets, I mean, I
Speaker:supply to like 100 brands
Speaker:with the Trink HRW.
Speaker:I've written a lot of
Speaker:blog content for them.
Speaker:There's a lot of good content I wrote.
Speaker:Some of it is pretty dated.
Speaker:I would have written it four or five,
Speaker:six, seven years ago.
Speaker:But even the dated stuff
Speaker:is still mostly accurate.
Speaker:There's just new information that could
Speaker:be rewritten, but that's
Speaker:really on them to update it.
Speaker:I can't be rewriting
Speaker:stuff for them forever.
Speaker:But yeah, those would be the best spots.
Speaker:If you're on my social media or on my
Speaker:website, you'll see the new podcast
Speaker:editions that go live.
Speaker:You'll get announcements
Speaker:from my books as they're coming.
Speaker:So I actually released one book, but then
Speaker:I read it after it had gone
Speaker:through the editing process.
Speaker:And I learned a lot because I had
Speaker:approved every
Speaker:paragraph that was being edited.
Speaker:But just looking at the paragraph through
Speaker:kind of like a keyhole,
Speaker:and I didn't think to
Speaker:read it chronologically.
Speaker:And then it came out and then I pulled it
Speaker:because I started
Speaker:reading it chronologically.
Speaker:I'm like, oh man, this is lost nuance.
Speaker:It's changed my voice.
Speaker:It's a little repetitive.
Speaker:So I pulled it.
Speaker:That's being rewritten.
Speaker:But actually, I think it's more fitting
Speaker:because the book that I wanted to release
Speaker:first, Stress Hacked, I was going to
Speaker:release second because the final thought
Speaker:war was complete and Stress Hacked was
Speaker:only about 90% complete
Speaker:when I made this decision.
Speaker:But now Stress Hacked is
Speaker:complete going through editing.
Speaker:So now I'm having to redo the editing of
Speaker:the final thought war.
Speaker:So they're going to get reversed, which I
Speaker:originally wanted it that way anyways.
Speaker:But I've written to various levels of
Speaker:finished seven books right now.
Speaker:So they'll be slowly
Speaker:released over the next few years.
Speaker:That's impressive.
Speaker:I'll definitely be getting
Speaker:every single one of them.
Speaker:And as I mentioned during our sort of
Speaker:initial
Speaker:correspondence, that's impressive.
Speaker:So I'm still trying to come
Speaker:up with the concept for one.
Speaker:Alex, again, thank you
Speaker:so much for your time.
Speaker:This was, again, at the risk of being the
Speaker:most truly a pleasure.
Speaker:And I'm just grateful for the opportunity
Speaker:to talk to you this morning.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Thank you very much for having me.
