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Episode 16

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Published on:

16th Mar 2025

#016 Andrew McLaughlan - Transform Your Life: Expert Tips from a Top Coach

Andrew McLaughlan is a coach. He is a leader who helps others lead, a consistent performer who values rest, and a master of his craft. However, he knows that’s not who he really is. He is on a mission to awaken fellow humans and change the consciousness of the planet. He so happens to be in the people-helping business and is a transformative coach.

His clients include group chief executives, entrepreneurs, coaches, members of leadership teams, directors and managers, parents, and professional athletes. He once believed that the ‘extraordinary’ don’t need a coach but has replaced that with ‘if you got a head, you got thinking’. We don’t do great things alone.


A student of life, on a learning curve, is naturally growing without force. Andrew is writing a book and continues to be in his life feeling its fullness and leading his clients to achieve the extraordinary. He holds a diploma in financial planning, graduated out of the Primal Health Coaching Institute over in the US and gained his strategic intervention training from Tony Robbins.


Andrew lives in Wales, UK and wants to keep on exploring mother earth and deepening his clarity. His simple vision for moving forward: Service & Love.


> During our discussion, you’ll discover:


(00:05:14) How his youth helped develop his philosophy

(00:08:41) What is Transformational Coaching

(00:17:39) is there a consistent type of challenge faced by Andrew’s clients

(00:20:21) What are Andrew’s views on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs

(00:24:37) Is trauma often an issue Andres faces

(00:30:00) Do underlying physical issues cause trauma and mental health issues

(00:40:45) Is John Demartini’s work, that the mind is the most important part of health, true

(00:44:39) Andrew’s thoughts and experiences on psychedelics

(00:49:02) How important is having a sense of community

(00:53:48) How to keep up these changes after the initial novelty wears off

(01:04:04) How to turn these ideas into actionable steps

(01:11:56) Are gratitude practices and journaling useful

(01:14:40) Andrew’s thoughts on religion

(01:16:53) Are there benefits to doing difficult stuff to build resilience

(01:20:27) 3 Tips to get your life on track


The vP life Podcast is brought to you by vitalityPRO, a supplement company based in the UK that provides you with the latest in health, anti-ageing and longevity supplementation. What makes vitalityPRO unique is that it third-party tests every product batch for quality, purity, heavy metals and other contaminants. vitalityPRO’s mission is simple: provide you with confidence in the quality and effectiveness of your longevity supplements that focus on restoring your cellular health.


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Transcript
Rob:

Welcome to the VP Life Podcast, the show where we bring you actionable

Rob:

health advice from leading minds.

Rob:

I'm your host, Rob.

Rob:

My guest today is Andrew McLaughlin, a transformational coach who works with

Rob:

aspiring individuals and entrepreneurs to help them realize their full potential.

Rob:

Expect to learn what transformational coaching really is, how Andrew takes

Rob:

people from zero to hero, and maybe most controversially, Andrew's take

Rob:

on psychedelics and whether they have a place in mindset change or not.

Rob:

Now, on to the conversation with Andrew McLaughlin.

Rob:

Good morning, Andrew, and thank you for joining us on the podcast today.

Rob:

I'm looking forward to today's conversation on mindset and growth.

Rob:

First though, while I wait for the caffeine to kick in and the blood to

Rob:

find its way into my fingertips, would you mind providing us with Just a, just

Rob:

an introduction, the usual, who you are, what you do and all that great stuff.

Rob:

It's awesome to have a bit of an origin story.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Good morning, Rob.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Thank you for, for having me, for inviting me on and to share what I

Andrew McLaughlan:

see and yeah, to hopefully add a bit of value here this morning to your,

Andrew McLaughlan:

to your community, to your listeners.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but yeah, I mean, straight in, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a

Andrew McLaughlan:

being that's doing the best.

Andrew McLaughlan:

he can, uh, with a thinking that looks real, I suppose.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So like I said, I want, I want to be as authentic as I can and

Andrew McLaughlan:

express what comes through me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But I mean, in terms of an origin story, um, I, I, I'm Welsh, live in

Andrew McLaughlan:

Wales, uh, stereotypical, um, sort of guy from the valleys who You know, I

Andrew McLaughlan:

don't want to say it came from nothing, but I mean, you know, it wasn't pot

Andrew McLaughlan:

noodles and tuna for all our early life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But, you know, we, we've got a culture whereby we, we, we work hard for things

Andrew McLaughlan:

and, and there's a space for that in life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so I think that set the ground for.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, me to be an achiever, but like, I, I, I always thought that life was out

Andrew McLaughlan:

there on the other side of something.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and, and listen, that, that, that made for a good life, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and, and there were some instances and, and circumstances early on in

Andrew McLaughlan:

life for me, um, to put a, like, a catch all statement on it that,

Andrew McLaughlan:

that, that give me some sort of worldview that life isn't safe.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like I felt insecure.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I felt unsafe.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that, that just sort of run me into my teens, uh, and twenties where

Andrew McLaughlan:

I had to come back at the world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, like I said, it got me good in business, got me good in sport.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I played, played rugby at, at, at, at a nice level year locally.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but I wasn't satisfied, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I was, uh, clearly, um, uh, an overachiever, a workaholic, a thinkaholic.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and like I said, uh, from outside looking in to, to what, like what

Andrew McLaughlan:

I call the circumstantial world, it's like, oh, he's doing well.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but, but there was always that feeling that I wasn't truly fulfilled.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, uh, just a snapshot, um, you know, couple of of businesses.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, just, just fortunate to be involved with great minds.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, you know, certainly since, uh, the, the, uh, 2000, um, the

Andrew McLaughlan:

millennium, um, year I, I got into an industry in financial services and.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Just, just got myself as strong, uh, as I can, as what I mean by that is

Andrew McLaughlan:

like in terms of study and in terms of, um, just, just curiosity, right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, um, fortunate enough to build a business, which we still got, I

Andrew McLaughlan:

mean, my involvement with our business is now more, uh, training, guiding,

Andrew McLaughlan:

teaching, mentoring, coaching, leadership team, and key executives.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and that's all by design, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's all by creation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We lead on to, um, my, my current guys, which is, um, transformational coaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, that's been, I mean, I've coached all my life, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's something that's inside of me that I like being with people.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I like seeing people, I like getting what's going on for them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So even though my coaching career sort of started in 2018, um, I see it

Andrew McLaughlan:

that I've been coaching way longer, I've been space holding, caregiving

Andrew McLaughlan:

for, for, um, for way longer than perhaps I did recognize at one point.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I mean, to, to, to summarize, like I, I don't want to be hypnotizing anyone too

Andrew McLaughlan:

much into, into my story, but it was a case of this, this evolution created, uh,

Andrew McLaughlan:

a guy that was curious but was clearly exhausted, um, and took, um, what I call

Andrew McLaughlan:

a two by four life, give me just a little something around the chops in 2016,

Andrew McLaughlan:

um, which woke me up to, um, a deeper curiosity, uh, which we will speak to.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so yeah, that's, that's sort of the origin story.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, And yeah, it's, it's, it's, um, it's a, it's a journey.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a beautiful journey.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And for the first time in my life, I'm not trying to get anywhere.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And again, we'll cover some ground on that.

Rob:

Yeah.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so yeah, I suppose it's, it's, um, I'm relating,

Andrew McLaughlan:

relating to life, relating to people.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'd see it that I've got something to give to help

Andrew McLaughlan:

people become more experienced.

Andrew McLaughlan:

a deeper meaning for life.

Rob:

Yeah, and I think I can attest to that having met you personally twice

Rob:

now at the Health Optimization Summit.

Rob:

You just air this, um, this desire to give and this desire to teach, which definitely

Rob:

comes, uh, through very strongly.

Rob:

Um, before we get into the meat and potatoes of the, of the conversation

Rob:

today, do you think that, well, I'm sure you do, But do you think that these sort

Rob:

of formative years sort of really helped to develop your, your transformational

Rob:

coaching philosophy going forwards?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah, indeed.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You, you, you mentioned philosophy there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

My philosophy and my coaching is every day is an opportunity to

Andrew McLaughlan:

create a living masterpiece, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's an, it's, it's a new day.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and I, and I'm totally not in the cliche sense of the saying, but, but

Rob:

yeah,

Andrew McLaughlan:

when we cover.

Andrew McLaughlan:

as best I can, uh, to articulate is how reality works.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then it changes our worldview, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Our playbook or our blueprint.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But yeah, I think there was a point in my, certainly in my coaching

Andrew McLaughlan:

career, where, whereby then really you've had this subjective experience

Andrew McLaughlan:

that's gone on for you and that can inform, um, the latter part of your

Andrew McLaughlan:

life or mid point of your life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that makes sense to me, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

So we've, we've not only got this, this sort of primitive part of us

Andrew McLaughlan:

that is looking to survive and evolve.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it shows on the surface level, it's like a need for certainty or security.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've, we've got life experiences, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because we get knocks, we get bumps, we get pain.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and I think we've got a massive misunderstanding

Andrew McLaughlan:

globally of how life works.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So if you check trifecta, it makes us, uh, needing to, to, to build.

Andrew McLaughlan:

On of like shaky foundations and I need to come back at the world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, and that's innocent.

Andrew McLaughlan:

'cause that was me, uh, you know, working on myself for over a decade.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I was like, when is all this gonna kick in?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and I, and, and, and, and I quote in quotes and expressions.

Andrew McLaughlan:

'cause words are a, both a lock and a key for me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and it's so you can get a feel for people in their life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but Sydney Banks, who is a, a, a Scottish welder who had an

Andrew McLaughlan:

enlightenment experience and he said something, uh, a quote that I argued.

Andrew McLaughlan:

a couple of years ago, and that, that going back in, in your past to work on

Andrew McLaughlan:

negative memories is like attempting to blow out an electric light bulb.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that was an insight moment for me because I was like, wow, for the

Andrew McLaughlan:

most of my life I was always in the domain of what I call, you know,

Andrew McLaughlan:

psychological time, past and future.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Either always scared of what could happen in the future or

Andrew McLaughlan:

looking to rewrite or beat myself up about my past or my history.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, and that quote just pierced me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I was like, wow, all my life that's been me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That was me in my infancy and my coaching careers.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I was always looking to take people back to, well, what's created you?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like what has happened there?

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'm not saying that that doesn't work for some people.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like you can go back and like sort of rewrite that, reshape it, reframe it,

Andrew McLaughlan:

which is a little bit of the NLP world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But now what I see that it's, we can acknowledge it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We can accept it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But it's not necessary.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So to answer your question, to come full loop, I think yes, I think

Andrew McLaughlan:

there's definitely something in those experiences, but what's going on now

Andrew McLaughlan:

for us is, um, is, is something where I speak is a little bit different.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not the past being regurgitated.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's our thinking about the past.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and I'd like to explore that in our, in our time together today.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I don't know if that answers your question right on.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so it's, it's, it's a yes, it does, but I don't necessarily

Andrew McLaughlan:

think that's what we're up against.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I think it's a way simpler.

Rob:

No, I mean, it definitely does.

Rob:

And I, it's probably the perfect segue to sort of move forwards

Rob:

into, I suppose, fundamentally what transformational coaching is.

Rob:

Uh, I've got a lot of questions thereafter, but at a high level,

Rob:

what is transformational coaching?

Rob:

What is it that you do on the day to day when working with people?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a great question.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I mean, if you look at it like transformational as word transform,

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like we are form, we are created.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Anything we're seeing here, you and I, it's form.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not formless, it's created from a formless energy, like a seed of

Andrew McLaughlan:

thought, but it's created, it's form.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So for us to transcend, for us to trance that form, we need

Andrew McLaughlan:

what I'd call like fresh and new.

Andrew McLaughlan:

thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We need the unknown.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Most people are in a perpetual state of, of just sort of regurgitating the known

Andrew McLaughlan:

to try and get them out of a, of a certain situation or try and create something

Andrew McLaughlan:

new for themselves, any life arena.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and, and we play fall out there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and I don't think we, we really do ourselves.

Andrew McLaughlan:

a service year, uh, it's only until we can, we can sell, slow down and

Andrew McLaughlan:

allow fresh and new thinking to come.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's what Albert Einstein said, you know, I think 99 times and I find nothing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I start by swimming a sea of silence and the truth comes to me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's that, it's that I think we're in the domain of the known.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and a lot of people coach from this and it's like, well, I've got a way

Andrew McLaughlan:

of doing this for you to break free or for you to cultivate or for you

Andrew McLaughlan:

to attract, um, and that's beautiful.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but I think again, there's a, there's a simpler way of doing

Andrew McLaughlan:

it and that is allowing people to settle for them to see clearly again.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that's, that's transforming.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's trans Port in the form, another way of saying it, but if I

Andrew McLaughlan:

can give you a summary of what I would call, like, if I was to say, there's,

Andrew McLaughlan:

there's a couple of levels to coaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, I coach at all levels because everyone's a fingerprint.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Everyone's got a unique history, things going on from what they

Andrew McLaughlan:

want to create, uh, and how they, they, they think that life happens.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but at the most basic level, I think that that's like

Andrew McLaughlan:

coaching a certain situation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So when I started out coaching in the health space, it was about,

Andrew McLaughlan:

well, how do I become healthy?

Andrew McLaughlan:

How do I optimize my, my hormonal, um, health?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, how do I lean up?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Indeed?

Andrew McLaughlan:

How do I put on muscle?

Andrew McLaughlan:

That type of stuff.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's a situation, let's call it that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, or it, it may be, um, like, It could be something like public

Andrew McLaughlan:

speaking, like a lot of people are.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So at that level, you work with someone on a specific situation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So for example, like public speaking, it could be taking them from a

Andrew McLaughlan:

place of, of fear to confidence.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So you could speak to them about how they're using their, their pattern of

Andrew McLaughlan:

focus, their physiology, their language.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You can get them in a, an empowered state to deliver that, that public, uh, talk.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and then hopefully they deliver it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and then they're on into their life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's an, it's outcome focused, you getting them from inaction to action, fear

Andrew McLaughlan:

to, to some sort of state of confidence.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that's amazing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, at least hopefully there's some sort of result there, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

then we're into our familiar world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So then that takes us then to what I call like a second level of coaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that is, well, great.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You've helped me with, uh, my fear around public speaking, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm constantly frustrated with.

Andrew McLaughlan:

My intimate partner, for example, so you can then talk to them at this level.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And this involves like some sort of skill building or recognizing some patterns.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that could be, well, are you meeting your partner's needs?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Unconditionally?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Are you holding space for them to be seen, to be heard, to be understood?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and then that hopefully will, will not only I've gotten them to be able to

Andrew McLaughlan:

public speak, but also to have a better experience in their relationships, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

not much changes out there, but they've got better at a certain situation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then they've got better at a certain life area.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then the, the, what I would call like the elite coaching

Andrew McLaughlan:

level is transformation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that is a conversation about.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Seeing a different world, being in a different world, looking through new

Andrew McLaughlan:

eyes, and that is giving rise to the conversation around, well, what do cause

Andrew McLaughlan:

the states of fear and frustration and That is what I would class as the epitome

Andrew McLaughlan:

of transformational coaching so that not much can change in a Circumstantial world,

Andrew McLaughlan:

but everything looks completely different.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So not much changes, but everything is different if I make sense So that's if

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm to just put a blanket on it all this there's a couple of levels and listen

Andrew McLaughlan:

sometimes I'm I am helping people with with the the moment a moment state and Um,

Andrew McLaughlan:

if, if I can get them into some sort of action, sometimes I am looking at skills,

Andrew McLaughlan:

certainly in intimate relationships, or even if they're dealing with difficult

Andrew McLaughlan:

people in their business or their career.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so it's, it's sort of pivoting between, but, but the more I stay

Andrew McLaughlan:

in transformational coaching, it's like you've just got to, as a

Andrew McLaughlan:

metaphor, just, just wake someone up as a little gentle touch as to,

Andrew McLaughlan:

well, what's truly going on here.

Andrew McLaughlan:

is actually happening from inside of you.

Rob:

Okay.

Rob:

So it's, it's almost like you're unpeeling an onion to an extent.

Rob:

You're sort of starting with one issue and establishing sort of further issues

Rob:

as they arise, when you sort of dealt with the first issue as they presented

Rob:

it to you, if that makes sense.

Rob:

So somebody comes to you, uh, with a fear of say public speaking or

Rob:

trying to improve public speaking.

Rob:

Um, the idea being that you would then work through that.

Rob:

and help them to achieve that goal with that.

Rob:

And then they are able to, yeah, work through that, but essentially that then

Rob:

unearths another set of problems or challenges or is that the way is that

Rob:

would that be a sort of a decent summary overall, just in terms of, and then

Rob:

helping them through that until they ultimately reach their, um, their, their

Rob:

epitome of what they deem to be success.

Rob:

Um, it's, would that sort of be to tie a bow in it, um, sort of a decent way

Rob:

of just establishing the whole concept?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Indeed.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I know we try to articulate something that is a felt energy, but I mean, it's,

Andrew McLaughlan:

it's for me, I'm always at that, that, that top level, uh, is the way I see.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So when I'm with someone is that's what I'm filtering through.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's my sort of grounding.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's my worldview, if you like.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and I, I use.

Andrew McLaughlan:

language as a filter for that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so I, I wouldn't say, and I'm not necessarily saying this is your question,

Andrew McLaughlan:

but I'm going to take someone through the levels to actually get them to like

Andrew McLaughlan:

level three so they, they break through.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I, I, I'm here and this is what I want to wake them up to like the, these levels.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And again, I, I just want to say that I'm not demonizing anything is the, you

Andrew McLaughlan:

know, I, I caught from our space from time to time and that was my entirety of my

Andrew McLaughlan:

coaching practice at a certain time point.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but it's a little bit like rearranging imaginary furniture.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's, it's at those levels.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a little bit made up.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's like we are trying to get better at a limited version of ourself.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, which can get people, like I said, from inaction to some sort of action.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so yeah, to get a feel for it, it could Constantina, it

Andrew McLaughlan:

could go through until someone really wakes up to who they are.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, I sometimes use, um, this, this is a quick story, but if, if Mother

Andrew McLaughlan:

Teresa sent me a request for coaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and I, I got it through my intake process and we, we agreed

Andrew McLaughlan:

and, um, she came into me and she was suffering with some sort of

Andrew McLaughlan:

amnesia and some sort of memory loss.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but she wanted to work with me on, well, how can I put more love and care

Andrew McLaughlan:

and compassion out there into the world?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then would I really take it through level one, level two coaching to

Andrew McLaughlan:

really get her, uh, embedded in this?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Oh, would I spend my time waking her up to, to who she truly is?

Andrew McLaughlan:

And for me, it would, it would certainly be the latter that that

Andrew McLaughlan:

certainly is what makes sense to me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So yeah, it's um, that, that, that one usually lands.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Dynamic process.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Indeed.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But it's getting a feel, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're all doing the best with our, our projection of what's looking really.

Andrew McLaughlan:

real to us and we're behaving accordingly and it's only until you can make

Andrew McLaughlan:

that visible to people that they can actually see the fleeting nature of it

Andrew McLaughlan:

because you know everyone's behavior makes sense to them so try taking that

Andrew McLaughlan:

behavior off someone who's, you know, You know, the, the behavior might be

Andrew McLaughlan:

destructive, disempowering, might be reactive to something, um, but that's

Andrew McLaughlan:

meeting, um, something at some level.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like sometimes I suggest it's designed to protect, prevent, provide.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So you try taking that behavior off someone and they're

Andrew McLaughlan:

going to wrestle for it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They're going to fight for it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But if you can show them an entirely new world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then that behavior that, that has gotten problematic dissipates.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Fair enough.

Rob:

Do you find that having obviously worked with a lot of people now

Rob:

that there's a constant, there's a constant type of challenge or do,

Rob:

do people generally face the same sorts of trials and tribulations?

Rob:

Um, is there sort of a, a pattern that you can identify with that most

Rob:

people are struggling to, to overcome in terms of their breakthrough moment?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Absolutely, Robert.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And for me, Uh, what I see, and this has been most impactful in my life, uh, with

Andrew McLaughlan:

me, my family, my businesses in any life arena really, and with those that I, that

Andrew McLaughlan:

I go on a journey with and, and, you know, with clients is, is the misunderstanding

Andrew McLaughlan:

of what creates their experience.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like that alone can change that, that as a, as again, as a.

Andrew McLaughlan:

As a metaphor, like if the cage is, is made of thought, then

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm going to just show them that the cage is not real, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm going to show them that another metaphor that there is a life beyond

Andrew McLaughlan:

the prison bars that they're behind.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But that is a misunderstanding globally.

Andrew McLaughlan:

of where our experience comes from, meaning that most people innocently,

Andrew McLaughlan:

because this is reinforced through childhood, through certain, you

Andrew McLaughlan:

know, our schooling is set up, our life is set up, culture, society,

Andrew McLaughlan:

is that life goes on out there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I take that in and I feel accordingly.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So something is happening in my circumstantial world, there's

Andrew McLaughlan:

an event situation, there's a past, there's a future, there's

Andrew McLaughlan:

a person, there's an event.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that is making me feel what I'm currently feeling.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that's the biggest illusion we're all hypnotized into.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's the biggest trick of the mind.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The mind wants to put what's going on on a certain event, what it's seeing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But that, what we are seeing is not giving us that feeling.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're feeling our thinking and not the world out there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that, that, that for me, when somebody, like we can move from the

Andrew McLaughlan:

head, like we, we can have a, well, I know that at some level, because we,

Andrew McLaughlan:

we, some wisdom does touch us, but it's until we really truly understand that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's when the system, like I sometimes refer to as the taps of life, like

Andrew McLaughlan:

we've got the taps the wrong way around.

Andrew McLaughlan:

When we realize then, you know, things like, well, I, I, I, I want to evaluate

Andrew McLaughlan:

my need structure, or I want to, uh, look up what I value in life, or I

Andrew McLaughlan:

want to remove my limiting beliefs, or I want a different perspective.

Andrew McLaughlan:

All that stuff starts to fall away because we realize that life works one way.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and it dampens a lot of flames for us in life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's a great question and I think that massive misunderstanding

Andrew McLaughlan:

is globally that we're feeling something other than our thinking.

Rob:

Okay, this would probably be a pretty decent segue to discussing

Rob:

Maslow and his hierarchy of needs.

Rob:

What do you think of his, uh, His framework, uh, for human self

Rob:

actualization, do you think that it fits, does it fit into your

Rob:

paradigm when working with people or are there sort of aspects of that

Rob:

particular pyramid that are missing?

Rob:

Uh, do you find it a sort of reasonable model to utilize for most people?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Indeed, not overly familiar with it, but I think there's

Andrew McLaughlan:

a base sense of survival in there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So we need to eat, we need to drink, we need to cater for our family and

Andrew McLaughlan:

have shelter and things like that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I think that's the, like the base of that, that pyramid.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I'm not overly familiar with it, but that makes sense to me, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We, we, we want to evolve.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We want to make sure that our tribe is protected and that we eat so

Andrew McLaughlan:

we can look after ourselves and we can then go on to serve others.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it does, but the, the needs that I'm referring to are, uh, uh, emotional and

Andrew McLaughlan:

That is, is when I'm speaking to someone, or whoever I'm in contact with, doesn't

Andrew McLaughlan:

need to be a client, is I'm getting a feel for the, for their, uh, their

Andrew McLaughlan:

grounding, how they're seeing life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and I see it as these sort of, um, three areas.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's a circumstantial world, it's our experiential world, which is our

Andrew McLaughlan:

psychology, and then it's the core, the essence of who we truly are.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm brushing people back into that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

essence of who they truly are, like the Mother, Mother Teresa story.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but on, on the level, if we want to create an extraordinary psychology,

Andrew McLaughlan:

which again is a little bit like, and I don't want to be too, um, dismissive

Andrew McLaughlan:

of this, uh, but it is like, uh, rearranging imaginary furniture.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But at that level, like get, getting us, getting it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

a nice need structure.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's not the Maslow, uh, hierarchy of like base and survival needs,

Andrew McLaughlan:

but it's the emotional needs.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And there's only six.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that is, that is certainty, uncertainty, significance,

Andrew McLaughlan:

love, and connection.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Growth and contribution.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that's what I filter for when I'm, when I'm with a client, because that's the

Andrew McLaughlan:

language that we use to go back and forth.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like if someone is, when they express what life's about, what

Andrew McLaughlan:

relationships are, how much is a long time, how much is a short time.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And you can get a real feel through the use of language.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I got to be honest, Rob, I don't think I've ever worked with

Andrew McLaughlan:

anyone whereby at the surface level that the need for certainty and

Andrew McLaughlan:

significance features somewhere.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's what's driving them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So again, I'm, I'm, I think I'm rambling a little bit here.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's fine.

Andrew McLaughlan:

On the thread with your hierarchy of needs, the mouth, I'm not too

Andrew McLaughlan:

familiar with that model, but the familiarity I have with it at the

Andrew McLaughlan:

domain of psychology is how it shows in our use of language and what it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

and how it is we seem to be presenting in the world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, and there's nothing wrong with certainty and significance.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I know I'm singling out those two, but because I work with C suite

Andrew McLaughlan:

executives and achievers, then you tend to find that it's there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And there's nothing wrong with that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like certainty, which is another word is security.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's some sort of surety.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You need to know you want to avoid that pain and get, get some sort

Andrew McLaughlan:

of sense of comfort, I suppose.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But that could be from reaction or it could be creative.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like a reaction is I need to control everything.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I need to control people, circumstances, event, what's going on out there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Cause the illusion is they think that they're going to feel something from

Andrew McLaughlan:

at least the attempt of doing that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And for significance, a reaction, uh, or reactionary way to, to attempt to meet

Andrew McLaughlan:

your need for significance could be that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, I'm out to destroy.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm out to empower.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm unique.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm important.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I am the best.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Again, not, not necessarily vilifying it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but it doesn't really make for a nice life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, um, it's could make for an unfulfilling life because we'll never

Andrew McLaughlan:

get enough of what we don't really need.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They are what perhaps the Buddha would call.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Hungry ghosts in that, you know, it doesn't matter how much we go after

Andrew McLaughlan:

certainty and significance using a reactionary model, that more of

Andrew McLaughlan:

that stuff will never be enough.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and it's not for everyone.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So some people, there is contribution, the features.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, so if somebody's like surface level needs are more from, from

Andrew McLaughlan:

sort of love, connection and contribution, possibly not a client.

Rob:

Yeah.

Rob:

Now, of course, I'd love to touch on a sort of novelty in, in, in a second

Rob:

and how you sort of work on that with people, but, uh, before we sort of move

Rob:

on to that, I just want to sort of have a quick discussion about trauma, if

Rob:

that's something you're comfortable with.

Rob:

Uh, I recently had a conversation with Dr. Johnny Hernstein, who's

Rob:

a, uh, a doctor just outside of.

Rob:

Oxford, if he listens to this, I apologize if I got that wrong, Johnny.

Rob:

But yeah, Johnny, uh, works with a lot of people who have suffered various

Rob:

forms of trauma, whether it's adverse childhood events or chronic or acute PTSD.

Rob:

Do you find that, uh, you sort of work with a lot of people who are And again, I

Rob:

think this is very, um, this is very much the norm in A type personalities again.

Rob:

But a lot of these people, at least in my experience anyway, have suffered

Rob:

some form of trauma in their lives.

Rob:

And trauma is obviously relative.

Rob:

I think my father put it perfectly when he said everybody's got

Rob:

their own version of hell.

Rob:

And what can be traumatic to somebody is In most, in most times is, well,

Rob:

not always, but doesn't have to always be traumatic to another person.

Rob:

Uh, but do you find when working with people that you're always,

Rob:

that you're normally unearthing some form of trauma along the way?

Rob:

Does that come up?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It does.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I want to be sensitive, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because like, it's just.

Andrew McLaughlan:

tangly cord that exists on a spectrum.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And what do we mean by that?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Well, yeah, me, me too.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, I can look at past and, and think trauma that, you know, if we could

Andrew McLaughlan:

say it is, it's a container, then, you know, my, my, my mom and dad separated.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I just remember a really specific event where mom was, was out working.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and, and, and so was dad, but the, the, the, didn't spend

Andrew McLaughlan:

time together in the home.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And it was, I just remember a period of my, my early childhood

Andrew McLaughlan:

whereby mom was working.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I remember dad leaving the house one day and I thought, wow, I'm, I'm alone, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm not enough.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm alone.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, dad was just taking his car on the back, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

That, that, that was as simple as it was, but I downloaded a self

Andrew McLaughlan:

of, uh, or sense of inadequacy.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but that's trauma, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

And they could be the, you know, the, the unthinkable that happens.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I want to be sensitive to everyone, but we've all gotten our bumps.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've all gotten our pain and that could, that could exist

Andrew McLaughlan:

on this side or this side.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But to really come out of it is yeah, work with, um, with

Andrew McLaughlan:

plenty of clients with PTSD.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but what you, what you, what you touched on is that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Relativity, that's subjectivity, um, because the one, the, the, the,

Andrew McLaughlan:

the sense of freedom that exists beyond, well, what happened, happened.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I, it didn't happen any, it didn't happen any other way.

Andrew McLaughlan:

'cause it, it didn't Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It, it happened because it happened.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then that sense of acceptance for that is, is the, is the doorway to some

Andrew McLaughlan:

sort of freedom, a doorway to some sort of living masterpiece because,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you know, speaking with someone, PTSD and, and an holding in space for them,

Andrew McLaughlan:

that their true essence, their true self is, is that they're not broken.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm waking them up to that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's only at the level of, like, what I call the domain of psychology, their

Andrew McLaughlan:

idea of themselves, as being impacted, as being whatever is going on for them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then, you know, there's a part of them that can't be diminished, that can't

Andrew McLaughlan:

be enhanced or sh or, or It can't shine any brighter than to actually feel

Andrew McLaughlan:

the true essence of who we truly are.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then that helps people see the ephemeral, the fleeting nature that I, I perhaps

Andrew McLaughlan:

don't need to be spending so much time in my, my memory of the past.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, because what is, is and what isn't, isn't without waxing too spiritual.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but that's no longer on our plate.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, you know, try eating yesterday's dinner today.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah, we, we try our best and we try eating tomorrow's dinner today, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

we can only eat what's in front of us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, it's, it's a nice metaphor because life is unfolding as it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, the past and the future are complete mind made illusions.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We never, we've never been in our past and we'll never be in our future.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah, and there's um, There's, there's a, there's a, for me at least,

Andrew McLaughlan:

there's a sense of freedom in that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So yes, deal, deal with many people and it, and it ranges on a continuum

Andrew McLaughlan:

of like this happened or even that something that's going on more locally

Andrew McLaughlan:

with an intimate relationship or, or in their business or in their finances.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and that could be perpetuated and has gone on over time, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

it's a sense of trauma, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's rooted in, I am not enough, uh, or I am not whatever it is for people.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And for me at the surface level that it, that, that can breed.

Andrew McLaughlan:

a sense of significance, certainly, certainly insignificance, maybe.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's, it's, it's only until I feel that we can show them that that's just

Andrew McLaughlan:

potentially them getting an attempt at conditioning a better version of

Andrew McLaughlan:

their limited self, or they can open the door to the essence of all the Who

Andrew McLaughlan:

they truly, who they deeply are always, always have been, always will be.

Rob:

Sorry, I'm just mulling over that for a second.

Rob:

Do you not think, and, and of course, I'm someone who's essentially a biologist.

Rob:

Do you not think Some people just are, are stuck in, in the past

Rob:

as a result of their physiology.

Rob:

Uh, I mean, I'm looking, I look at it very much through that lens and, and

Rob:

I'm, I'm not disagreeing with you in the slightest, but the way I look at it,

Rob:

people who are oftentimes very traumatized have almost physiological adaptations

Rob:

to that trauma that can oftentimes then limit their progression going forwards.

Rob:

And I suppose that's sort of.

Rob:

A decent segue into a question I was going to ask a bit later on, but do you ever

Rob:

think that there's a, or do you find that there's a, a point at which people have

Rob:

to start dealing with underlying health issues in order to make progression, uh,

Rob:

with their psychology, with their goals?

Rob:

Do you find, or can that generally be worked around, uh, I mean, again, if

Rob:

somebody has Is, is hypothyroid, or is low testosterone, or has an underlying

Rob:

condition, um, do you find that by working with, um, alongside, I mean, you mentioned

Rob:

earlier that you previously worked with people from a health perspective and

Rob:

improving their, their health metrics, do you find working with, is, is, is,

Rob:

is Um, if I'm making sense that putting these two, uh, practices together sort

Rob:

of yields more of a result of one plus one equals three sort of approach, does

Rob:

that ever sort of come into it at all?

Rob:

Uh, your, your philosophy again?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Absolutely.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I want you to ask the, the, the question again, because what I

Andrew McLaughlan:

want to address is the, the, the storing of something in our body.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, because.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, I'll give you an example that a client I work with recently,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you know, um, for, for him is, his worldview, his playbook for

Andrew McLaughlan:

life is that he's not safe, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Now, this is a guy that's, that's, that's achieved extraordinary things,

Andrew McLaughlan:

what I call in his circumstantial world, but it's deep rooted in lack, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

In scarcity, that, that his world is not safe.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, and that came from something in his past.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's also primitive, the need for certainty.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and it's a misunderstanding of how life works and what, what we.

Andrew McLaughlan:

or how the conversation went was, well, that, you know, once we made the invisible

Andrew McLaughlan:

visible, right, that we made that, that it was a, a deep rooted, well, I am not safe.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then when I asked them, well, where does that reside in your body?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like that, that sense of I am not safe.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, can you tell me where that is now?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Instantly went to the gut.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'm like, okay, well, what I mean by that is if we did surgery, could we

Andrew McLaughlan:

pull out something with a barcode on that's there with, with, I am not safe.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, there's, there's an agreement that's made, you know, it's, it's

Andrew McLaughlan:

validity, uh, it's verifying well, actually, if it doesn't exist as something

Andrew McLaughlan:

we can see, then are you open to the possibility that it's no longer a truth?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Not saying what went on wasn't real, didn't happen, but are you open to the

Andrew McLaughlan:

possibility that, that I am not safe?

Andrew McLaughlan:

is not part of your physical vessel.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then the conversation went on to, well, yes, it's not, it's in my mind.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's a different conversation because anything in mind is imagination.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Anything in mind is likely thought created.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So again, not saying nothing happened.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

How it's being felt now in the body is we're giving life to it through

Andrew McLaughlan:

the power of thought, and that over time will downregulate our physiology.

Andrew McLaughlan:

James Allen wrote in the book, As a Man Thinketh, a thought can kill

Andrew McLaughlan:

a man as speedily as a bullet.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And we live in that perpetual state of, of resistance, of what

Andrew McLaughlan:

happened shouldn't have happened.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that, I want to speak to the paradigm of like, uh, uh, let's call it mind

Andrew McLaughlan:

can downregulate our physiology.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And we stay in that perpetual state of trying to get away from the past

Andrew McLaughlan:

that we've not accepted, or didn't want, or shouldn't have happened.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is, I, I feel the best I can.

Andrew McLaughlan:

can downregulate our physiology and we don't feel that great.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I, I just wanted to close the loop on that because what I'm not saying,

Andrew McLaughlan:

I want to be, you know, come from love and compassion for everyone.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've all got, got things going on for us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've all got a past.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I like what Mavis Khan said, uh, who's a space holder over in the US.

Andrew McLaughlan:

She said, well, you know, I, I've got a past, but it's up there on the shelf.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And when I want to look at it, I look at it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And when I don't, I won't.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And again, it's like that Sidney Banks quote, is there's a, there's a freedom

Andrew McLaughlan:

in that because innocently, you know, we, we, we get caught up in, in the domains

Andrew McLaughlan:

of, of past and future and trying to, to maybe, um, reshape those experiences.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I, and my guess is we don't do very good there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I just wanted to close the loop on the, on the, on the, on the,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you know, we're using the word as, as trauma, but I feel there's,

Andrew McLaughlan:

there's, you know, there's perhaps.

Andrew McLaughlan:

A sense of freedom, at least, that when we could recognize what actually is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

What is a reality and perhaps we're only giving life to something through

Andrew McLaughlan:

the power of thought and that's what we get as a feeling state and

Andrew McLaughlan:

deepening understanding around that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Maybe, just maybe, there could be a sense of freedom.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Seen it in my life and I've seen it in those.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Once we build rapport and we get a feel for what's going on for their world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, trusting that makes sense.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Certainly at a, a verbal level, um, and then that leads me on to, which

Andrew McLaughlan:

if I've captured your question as how I interpreted it, is that the,

Andrew McLaughlan:

the, the physical body, um, then, look, listen, you, you, you know, we

Andrew McLaughlan:

could, we could speak all day about, you know, the importance of looking

Andrew McLaughlan:

after our physical vessel, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a temporary home.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, I'm squinting at sort of like living till three digits,

Andrew McLaughlan:

uh, maybe one, one, one.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's just the numerology bit in me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so it makes sense to me to get the basics, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

The fundamentals of the physical body, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, you know, feeling is not only, um, a symptom of our thinking, but also

Andrew McLaughlan:

perhaps what's going on physiologically.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I don't want to throw that out, uh, so it makes sense to me to do some blood

Andrew McLaughlan:

testing, to make sure you're eating as clean as a whole foods diet as you can,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you know, hydrating, recovery, you know, I got the full, I got the aura ring, I get

Andrew McLaughlan:

some biofeedback in terms of, you know, my sleep quality, respiratory rate, rest

Andrew McLaughlan:

and heart rate, heart rate variability.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, you know, yeah, I'm under a lot of junk light right now, but I'll

Andrew McLaughlan:

make sure I'm under natural light.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I've done that this morning before we jumped on.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I will ground.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I will get heat.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I expose myself to extreme cold temperatures, but I'm doing that for

Andrew McLaughlan:

physiology because that makes sense to me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The physics of physiology, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's some conditioning.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's maybe work to do, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We can't just take ourselves off to a cave, fold up like a

Andrew McLaughlan:

pretzel and arm for six, seven, eight decades and expect to be.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Full of vitality, energy, and optimized.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, that, that makes sense to me at least.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so that, that physics of, of conditioning, same with the

Andrew McLaughlan:

relationship, that is form.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It needs work, same with the business, that's a creation form.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It needs work, we need to get better at stuff, there's

Andrew McLaughlan:

skills in all these domains.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But with our mind, Rob, it doesn't operate with the same physics.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I think what we do is we do put them in the same container.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That if I wanna If I want to get a better physiology, if I want to lean up, if I

Andrew McLaughlan:

want to gain some muscle or if I want to start to sleep better or if I want to get,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you know, uh, an extra 20K turnover, uh, in, in, in my business, then we, we mark

Andrew McLaughlan:

what's going on internally, invisibly with the physics of what's needed.

Andrew McLaughlan:

externally in form, in creation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The mind, I see it as a, as a self correcting system.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like if we don't get in there in the, in the mechanics and try and work

Andrew McLaughlan:

out every feeling, every thought, if we stand back, then the mind,

Andrew McLaughlan:

for me, is a self correcting system.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not externally corrected.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like in the world of form, if, if my, my car is, is needing to, you

Andrew McLaughlan:

know, to, to be fixed for whatever reason, it needs the garage.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, it needs external intervention.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It needs something from external to actually solve what's going on.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But with the mind it's, it's internally corrected.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and once we remove a misunderstanding, once we get out of our way, It does a

Andrew McLaughlan:

very good job of bringing us back to a state of homeostasis, a state of balance.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It gives us fresh and new thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It pierces us, gives us a sense of wisdom, of insight, of creation,

Andrew McLaughlan:

where we're back into our core states.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and that, and that's freedom, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's for me, a life of masterpieces is that it's not out there, over there with

Andrew McLaughlan:

that person, with that thing, that it's.

Andrew McLaughlan:

With us all along, we've got the kit for any adventure, really.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So yes, the physical vessel, I think it needs conditioning at least

Andrew McLaughlan:

to, you know, as we evolve and to look after ourselves, we need to

Andrew McLaughlan:

recover, recuperate, uh, and rest.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But I think we, we, we don't really need to, to do that with mind.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that takes us into, like, maybe mindset, and we need to get into the

Andrew McLaughlan:

schematics of how the mind works, and how do we reprogram our unconscious,

Andrew McLaughlan:

and, and I'm like, I tried that for a decade, and, and I know you're in, in

Andrew McLaughlan:

the health optimization space, and it felt to me like what Gary Brekker says

Andrew McLaughlan:

when he works with people and they're on antidepressants, and he's like,

Andrew McLaughlan:

they're on it for 15 years, and he's like, When do you expect it to kick in?

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I was like, that was self development.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's a sense of, of unfulfillment.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I was like, it's just this lag time.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm just waiting for all the sets and reps, everything that I've been

Andrew McLaughlan:

doing with meditation, you know, dream catching, reprogram, the

Andrew McLaughlan:

subliminal messaging, uh, capturing my REM state, sleep, my dream state.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, you know, I probably live for four hours a day and the

Andrew McLaughlan:

rest was spent working on me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And.

Andrew McLaughlan:

For me at least, and I see it in people that I work with, is I think

Andrew McLaughlan:

we can, we can just step back and let the natural intelligence of mind

Andrew McLaughlan:

do a lot of the correcting for us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And to be guided by that is a, is a real powerful place to be.

Rob:

Yeah, there's a lot that I'm going to have to reflect on as well.

Rob:

What do you think of John Diamantini specifically?

Rob:

Um, he's, it's a body of work, his body of work is something I'm not that

Rob:

familiar with, but there does seem to be some overlap between what he, uh, uh,

Rob:

talks about and what you've just said.

Rob:

Do you, do you agree with what he sort of puts out in the world, essentially, that,

Rob:

uh, mind is, is is essentially everything when it comes down to, to health.

Rob:

Um, I mean, obviously he works specifically with, with people who are in

Rob:

these acute sort of physical states of, of disease or dis ease, of being unwell.

Rob:

Um, what do you think of his work in, in particular?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I, I, I gotta be honest, I'm not overly familiar with it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I love the fact that he's pointing to Um, you know, if you look at

Andrew McLaughlan:

principles, like, like we're having a conceptual conversation here, what

Andrew McLaughlan:

we've got going for us is what I would call some key principles, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're alive, we're aware, and we think.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Meaning we've got mind, we've got some level of consciousness,

Andrew McLaughlan:

and we've got thought.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Otherwise we couldn't be doing this.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Everyone, 8 billion of us on this planet, right, at the surface

Andrew McLaughlan:

level have got that going for them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm like, wow.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That, that, that's phenomenal, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's 400 quadrillion, one chance for us to be here.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And we, you know, it's virtually zero for us to be walking and

Andrew McLaughlan:

exploring this mother rock.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But we are walking on in a perpetual state of, of a thought created,

Andrew McLaughlan:

perceptual generated reality, what conversation with ourself thinking that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've got more to do.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We need to become.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So the, so the, the, the part of mine, like, I'm not really doing a great

Andrew McLaughlan:

job of diving into the great body of work that the chap you ref runs,

Andrew McLaughlan:

but mind really is the power, what I call the power principle, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're plugged in, like the deeper sense of mind is like a universal mind.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then we've got a personal mind, which is, which is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

which is what you and I have.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But we've got a divine mind or a sense of universal mind that is the natural

Andrew McLaughlan:

intelligence that is guiding the universe, that is allowing birds to migrate, that is

Andrew McLaughlan:

allowing grass to grow through concrete, that is allowing nature to do what it

Andrew McLaughlan:

does exactly on time, and it allows the ocean to do what the ocean does.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It allows any animal in nature to be in sync and do what it does.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And we can rely on that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah, the, the, the mind works more like, how can I put it, more, more

Andrew McLaughlan:

like a paintbrush or a projector than it does a viewfinder in a camera.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Going back to that life goes on out there and we take it in, that we

Andrew McLaughlan:

are, we are simultaneously creating and perceiving a reality out there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like we're only ever up against ourself, but only Like for most people that,

Andrew McLaughlan:

that, that, that, when I said external correcting system about needing to

Andrew McLaughlan:

solve something, that makes sense to something that, that if meaning

Andrew McLaughlan:

that, that it needs intervention, but most people, they have thinking

Andrew McLaughlan:

problems, no judgment, myself included.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that means, well, if, if it's not a real problem, if it doesn't need external

Andrew McLaughlan:

intervention, if it doesn't need fixing, then if it's a. If it's a thinking

Andrew McLaughlan:

problem, uh, and I'm using problem in the sense of like the general sense of

Andrew McLaughlan:

the word, because there is no problems.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's a, there's an outcome and then it's how we relate to it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but if we, if we look at, well, okay, if it's a thinking problem,

Andrew McLaughlan:

then it doesn't need solving.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It needs dissolving.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It needs dissolution.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Meaning that it's, it's created an imagination, whether it's the domain

Andrew McLaughlan:

of the past or future, or whether it's something that we're self creating because

Andrew McLaughlan:

of our perception of things, then that puts us back in power because then we've

Andrew McLaughlan:

got the freedom to see what's going on and that takes the power out of it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Nothing to do.

Rob:

You said dissolution a moment ago.

Rob:

Uh, the moment someone talks to me about dissolution, I sort of instantly

Rob:

go towards psychedelics and the sort of the dissolution of the ego.

Rob:

Uh, and I mean, I know psychedelics are a bit of a tricky topic,

Rob:

uh, at the best of times.

Rob:

And, and we can certainly, and if this is something you wouldn't, don't want to

Rob:

answer, we can certainly skim over it.

Rob:

But have you had any, Um, experience with psychedelics, um, whether personally

Rob:

with, with your, uh, with your clients and have you found them to be effective

Rob:

in any way, shape or form or not really?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I, I, I have, uh, and I've had plenty of, of clients.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and when I say I have, um, there was a small microdosing of psilocybin.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but I got to be honest, Rob, I think my.

Andrew McLaughlan:

internal sense of, well, again, I'm going outside of myself to correct

Andrew McLaughlan:

something that's maybe invisible.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but I mean, to really answer your question, I think really what's happening

Andrew McLaughlan:

is a dissolution of our habitual thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like when we put aside our habitual thinking, cause that's all we

Andrew McLaughlan:

feel like thought is different.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's a, that's like a blue sky.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a universal energy, but it's only until we give life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

to that thought, that we turn it into, like, a thought form.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We call it thinking, and that's what we feel.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, once we can drop out of that personal thinking, like, we're really

Andrew McLaughlan:

back to the essence of who we truly are.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And we're all experts at it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, we wouldn't fall asleep each night if we didn't fall

Andrew McLaughlan:

out of our personal thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, I'm sure you've had nights, I know I have, whereby I can't really

Andrew McLaughlan:

switch out of that personal thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I see it differently now.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It hasn't got an hold over me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But there would have been times in my life, and there's certainly a patch

Andrew McLaughlan:

in my life where I didn't sleep very well, but I was hanging on to that

Andrew McLaughlan:

personal thing, because I didn't really understand how life worked.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, we're experts at it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's the same when we go on holiday.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah, we go on holiday, we're on the beach, we're on the deck

Andrew McLaughlan:

chair, we've got the ocean in front of us, we've got the sun.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But we've fallen out of our habitual thinking, but the mind blames the feeling

Andrew McLaughlan:

on the circumstance, our surroundings.

Andrew McLaughlan:

What's unique, what's recent, what's consistent.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's the mind.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's how it's working.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's trying to, trying to capture what's going on here.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that's the, the, it's a mind made illusion because the only place a holiday

Andrew McLaughlan:

really exists is inside of us, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's, um, there's nothing out there in form that can give us a feeling.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's no, no, no, no past, no future, no person, place, thing, no

Andrew McLaughlan:

personality, no identity, um, that can transition a feeling to us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm happy to be challenged on that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

If that's not true, um, then we can expose that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But that's what we're perpetually in a state of that simultaneous creating

Andrew McLaughlan:

and perceiving of a reality is that we're filtering it through thought.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And what does that mean?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Well, seeing it or understanding it gives us so much freedom, gives

Andrew McLaughlan:

us so much freedom that the only thing we're ever up against is our

Andrew McLaughlan:

perspective, is our perception.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because, you know, I always say, John, John is not an arsehole.

Andrew McLaughlan:

John is John.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm meeting my expectation of job or my perspective of job.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like business is not difficult right now.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Business just is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm meeting my perspective of what's going on in business.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like my, my future isn't scary.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm just meeting my perspective of what it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And what, how I'm thinking about it and I'm feeling accordingly in the moment.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So there is that, that dissolution process is a, is almost like a subtractive

Andrew McLaughlan:

psychology, if you like, as a, as a body of work, is that once we remove

Andrew McLaughlan:

those layers of thinking, we're back home, we're back to peace, we're back to

Andrew McLaughlan:

security, we're back to happiness, we're back to wellbeing, we're back to clarity.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And, and, and that's why the, you know, the sage is, um, certainly, you know,

Andrew McLaughlan:

roomy where he says, you know, what you're looking for, you're looking for.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That, that, that's, that's another way of pointing to it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not out there on the other side of anything, that's the illusion or any one.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a, it's, it's a state that exists.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's baked into each and every one of us, but we clearly only

Andrew McLaughlan:

look in where the light's better.

Rob:

That's perfect.

Rob:

No, it's definitely a unique way of looking at it and something I'm

Rob:

going to have to again reflect on.

Rob:

There's going to be a lot I'm going to have to reflect on

Rob:

this podcast, off this podcast.

Rob:

Um.

Rob:

You mentioned earlier that you work with a lot of C suite

Rob:

execs and, and, and A types.

Rob:

How often do you find that these individuals are, I suppose this is,

Rob:

Maybe a bit more of an academic question, uh, that a lot of their issues quote

Rob:

unquote, um, obviously again, those all relative come back to sort of isolation.

Rob:

Um, I'm finding more and more people, um, again, in the sort

Rob:

of the health optimization space, really struggle because they don't

Rob:

have that sense of community.

Rob:

They don't have a community.

Rob:

And then that impacts sort of, well.

Rob:

almost every aspect of their life.

Rob:

Um, obviously execs, ATAPs, the most part of very much focused on achievement

Rob:

and almost to the exclusion of all else.

Rob:

Um, and I think most people intuitively know that they've got to exercise,

Rob:

they've got to do, uh, the healthy stuff.

Rob:

And obviously they're then coming to you for.

Rob:

for guidance, but do you find a lot of them are overly isolated

Rob:

and that that's sort of, to some extent, sabotaging their progress?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yes.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and I think that's just surface level studies, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

They say like, you know, two in three CEOs are lonely because the other

Andrew McLaughlan:

side of success is a lonely place.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so really it's a little deep, sort of deeper seated in that, in

Andrew McLaughlan:

that, then what I'm looking for is a sense of how authentic is

Andrew McLaughlan:

their endeavors for their goals.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like if we're, if, again, we, we, we use language, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

So if they, if they think that they should be doing something, have to

Andrew McLaughlan:

be doing something, got to be doing singing, must be doing something.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then for me, that gives me at a surface level, something that's deeper rooted

Andrew McLaughlan:

because they're in reaction, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

They, they, they feel this is the way that it should be, maybe

Andrew McLaughlan:

because of a misunderstanding that their, their happiness or sense

Andrew McLaughlan:

of, of success or wellbeing is on the other side of something.

Andrew McLaughlan:

innocently.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so I'm getting a feel for how aligned and how authentic their action

Andrew McLaughlan:

taking is because I've seen it that you will find that once we, once we

Andrew McLaughlan:

reveal what life is for them and that they start to see a new world, that

Andrew McLaughlan:

they may stop doing what they're doing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And they might find that this is not what it is they're here to do, be and serve,

Andrew McLaughlan:

is that they might change career, they might fold down their business, they

Andrew McLaughlan:

might double down on it, it's unique for every person, but we need to get a

Andrew McLaughlan:

sense of whether our action is aligned.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Whether it's authentic, whether it's because we're curious, whether it's

Andrew McLaughlan:

because we're inspired, we're, uh, we're sort of infused with this desire, not from

Andrew McLaughlan:

a case of outside in, meaning that it's going to be responsible for me stopping a

Andrew McLaughlan:

certain core state or for me Attracting a certain core state because it's a judgment

Andrew McLaughlan:

on my part, but most people certainly are in business because they think it's part

Andrew McLaughlan:

of a self development tool that they can use that once I've got this business,

Andrew McLaughlan:

then I can breathe, then I can be be home.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'm like, well, if you're in business for that certainty, then good luck.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but we can't get any of those feelings from anything that's created in form.

Andrew McLaughlan:

No thing can give us those core states that even though we seek in it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We just haven't uncovered them, we haven't got back to them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so it's a, it's a, it's um, it's a, it's a little bit marshy, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm, I'm looking for what's, what's driving them, what's guiding them,

Andrew McLaughlan:

what's going on, how aligned are they?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because if their, their words are drooped and they should,

Andrew McLaughlan:

then likely there's some sense of inadequacy, insecurity, or, or lack.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that can look good on the outside, but I can, I can pretty much guess

Andrew McLaughlan:

that it, it feels that they're pretty empty and lonely on the inside.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So again, it comes in, in all sorts of shapes and sizes and forms in that sense.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but I'm looking to, you know, Thomas Edison's got a great quote

Andrew McLaughlan:

that, um, genius is, he said that the genius is, is 1 percent inspiration.

Andrew McLaughlan:

99 percent perspiration.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that rings true for me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's like, you know, inspiration is great, but are you doing

Andrew McLaughlan:

this because you want to serve?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is it because you've got something inside of you to give?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is it that you want to see a better planet?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is it for the greater good?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is it for the goodness of your tribe and beyond?

Andrew McLaughlan:

And not everyone.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But certainly people in business are looking to achieve in business.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They think that this is what they've got to do.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's about status recognition.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They play in the game of what it looks like in terms of their

Andrew McLaughlan:

circumstantial domain, which is the outer domain, because what we've

Andrew McLaughlan:

learned is to change how we feel.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've got to go out to that outer domain to, to achieve and accumulate.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and at least for what I see, and I know it did ring true in my life, is

Andrew McLaughlan:

that it's a science and you can attain, you can gain, but it's not fulfilling.

Rob:

Novelty.

Rob:

I think novelty is something people struggle with a lot.

Rob:

Um, definitely in terms of being able to, and this will definitely

Rob:

segue, I think, into a conversation about how to sustain change.

Rob:

But Again, in my view, people and experience not necessarily view my, in

Rob:

my experience, people are always very quick to want to make change, but the

Rob:

moment that that initial novelty has worn off, that the initial excitement

Rob:

has dissipated, they sort of fall back into their previous ways of, of

Rob:

operating, of, of, of being, um, How do you sort of, again, um, maybe this

Rob:

is me just asking for personal reasons, help people to sort of navigate that.

Rob:

I mean, obviously there, there, there are a bunch of, of changes of, of practices

Rob:

you could, you could throw into the mix.

Rob:

Um, but, and I suppose you could utilize tools such as KPIs and, and

Rob:

other objective measures of success, which may sort of reinforce that, that

Rob:

sort of that dopamine kick, which is, I suppose, essentially what novelty is.

Rob:

But, And I suppose this, uh, you might say that this is a bit like a relationship

Rob:

and keeping things sort of quote unquote fresh, but how do you help someone who

Rob:

is constantly on the, on, in need of, of the next kick of needing something

Rob:

to consistently keep them going?

Rob:

Does that make sense?

Rob:

Is that, um, yeah.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Perfect sense.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And the last bit of your.

Andrew McLaughlan:

question is, is where it's at because it's like that perpetual state

Andrew McLaughlan:

of more, um, because most people are in that reactionary state.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And again, if their language is rooting in, in, well, I've got to do this,

Andrew McLaughlan:

or I should be doing this, or I have to be doing this, that's the clue.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because, you know, it's something that I say, and it, it, it

Andrew McLaughlan:

raises the most questions is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Don't get better at what you don't want to do, right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that's an instant thought provoke because most people are doing things

Andrew McLaughlan:

because of imitation or because people said this, or that was my upbringing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Mom and dad expect this of me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

My business partner expects that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And it doesn't feel great, right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It can be exhaustive.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So.

Andrew McLaughlan:

If there's something you want to do, you'd love to do, you want to explore,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you're deeply curious, like you don't need willpower, you don't need mindset,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you don't need motivation, like you're so pulled toward whatever that body of

Andrew McLaughlan:

work is, you don't need pushing, like you don't need to look, well, let me

Andrew McLaughlan:

look at which need I'm meeting here.

Andrew McLaughlan:

What, how am I meeting my, my values?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like I was, do I need to change who I am in terms of personality?

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's so many variables and moving parts that we know there's a sense of.

Andrew McLaughlan:

inside of us somewhere that this doesn't make sense.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So lasting change for me is that level of three, which is transformation

Andrew McLaughlan:

is transport in the form is seeing a completely different new world,

Andrew McLaughlan:

which happens through a change or a shift in consciousness.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's awareness.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Cause when you see something, you can't unsee it, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like if, if I leave my office here today, Probably a bad example, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

if I, for me to go home, I turn right and, you know, maybe 20 minutes,

Andrew McLaughlan:

maybe a bit of traffic and, and, and just congestion, that sort of stuff.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But if I left here and turned left that I didn't know about, but there was a route

Andrew McLaughlan:

that could get me home in five minutes, no traffic, just straight through.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, how long do you think it would take me?

Andrew McLaughlan:

To continually turn left.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Most people say, well, it, it, it wouldn't take any time.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I agree with that, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Not 21 days to wiring change and our new, uh, greasing the

Andrew McLaughlan:

groove of an habituated habit.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, I might go right now and again, but that's because of, of

Andrew McLaughlan:

stale or, uh, patterns of thought.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But I'll wake up to truth and I'll, I'll come back left.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's showing people really, um, that, that the taps of life

Andrew McLaughlan:

are, are the wrong way around.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We don't need to cope.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We don't need to fight the world out there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We don't need any tools, techniques, or strategy.

Andrew McLaughlan:

My life is littered with them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm sure we'll speak about that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But therefore the domain of physical, uh, health and enhancement, optimization.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But again, in, in terms of, of me as, as a being, um, there's not so, so

Andrew McLaughlan:

back onto awareness and consciousness.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's like from, and if we can call like what I call like the ground

Andrew McLaughlan:

flow of reality is that I'm looking at a mirage from this level, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I can see some, some, something that resembles a mirage.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that's what I'm taking into my, uh, perceptual reality.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But if I sort of raise and let's call it, I go to another level of

Andrew McLaughlan:

awareness and consciousness, I'm like, Where's the water gone, dude?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's no longer there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because I've shifted my state of awareness, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I've seen something now.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that doesn't mean to say we've come back to ground.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, I'm not enlightened by any stretch.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'm back into my, you know, it doesn't matter how enlightened

Andrew McLaughlan:

we become, we'll always have to deal with our everyday psychology.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But, but understanding the pattern.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The awareness can be curative.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That alone, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's the door of awareness.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's the door of change.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Now you're beyond the prison bars.

Andrew McLaughlan:

What you do with your life is up to you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The, the, it's, it's that elevated, if you like, if I can, if I can call it that,

Andrew McLaughlan:

it's like on the ground floor, we can see a lot of congestion, a lot of vehicles.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's objective life's coming at me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm, I'm almost like a victim.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but as, as, as we go, so if you think we're in a glass elevator,

Andrew McLaughlan:

the higher we go on the, on the, the second floors, it's like, well, life

Andrew McLaughlan:

is more subjective in nature, like.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Life is what I make it type thing and the higher we go, we just get out

Andrew McLaughlan:

and we can just see the buildings and then we can see different landscapes.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We can see the ocean.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then before we know it, we got the curvature of the earth and, and

Andrew McLaughlan:

really, which is like a sort of an in, in, in, Enlightened level, if

Andrew McLaughlan:

you like, where it's all arbitrary.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's beyond illusion.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I think lasting change is a shift in awareness.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And do you know what, Rob?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like we're not in the, in sort of linear space time.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You're not in Newtonian physics.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You're with, uh, with, with insight and wisdom.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's more of a vertical, vertical dimension.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Cause it can happen that fast.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Someone can have an insight in any moment.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, in the marketplace, we're not all equal.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's certain skills.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like if you're a CEO wanting to get better at stuff, there's

Andrew McLaughlan:

certain things to train out.

Andrew McLaughlan:

If we want to get better in a relationship, our physical body, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

the, um, in terms of our soul, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We are all equal in terms of wisdom.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've all got access to it, but we're so contaminated in habitual

Andrew McLaughlan:

thought, thinking patterns that we're not, we can never truly feel it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We can never truly, we just, our bandwidth, if you like.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is, um, that, that consciousness is just so full that we don't allow for fresh

Andrew McLaughlan:

and new thinking to come through, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, again, yes, break, breaking through the limitation, because

Andrew McLaughlan:

like Shakespeare said, we've got to know we're in a prison in order

Andrew McLaughlan:

to be, so that's awareness, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

To be free of that prison.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's awareness.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's the same when someone says, I am depressed, with all love and respect

Andrew McLaughlan:

to that, they can't be, because by definition they've got awareness of it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So if you've got awareness of it, you can't be it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, there's, um, for me, it's, it's, uh, me too.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah, I am, you know, we can say we have.

Andrew McLaughlan:

periods of time where we feel depressed, that's different.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, your question was, well, how does somebody, I think, get

Andrew McLaughlan:

clarity with yourself and what you truly want for your life?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, don't just resign and think, well, I'm living in a self percepted reality,

Andrew McLaughlan:

and I can just resign and just, just realize that nothing's going on out there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not about that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's being committed to the life that you want to create.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But make sure it's not rooted in something that you're, you're looking to get away

Andrew McLaughlan:

from or you're in reaction to or at least understanding how the system works.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then stuff that you, you do and maybe a new level of awareness

Andrew McLaughlan:

stop making sense to you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You, you don't have to work at the level of behavior.

Andrew McLaughlan:

For me, that's where psychology is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They've forgotten like mind, um, and, uh, maybe let's call it spirit, soul,

Andrew McLaughlan:

and they've gone straight to behavior.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's about, you know, getting our fingers in there and

Andrew McLaughlan:

trying to wrestle with reality.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I think we can do a better job by settling there in our mind

Andrew McLaughlan:

clear, understand the principles.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like there's three principles behind fire, which is fuel, heat and oxygen.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's a few principles behind flight, which is drag,

Andrew McLaughlan:

thrust and pull, maybe more.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's, there's principles, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

So we've got to understand the world we're in.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's the misunderstanding.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Again, the life goes on out there because there was once a

Andrew McLaughlan:

theory that the world is flat.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that still think it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But if the world is flat, then that makes a tough time if we're a sailor.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It means we've got to be aware, we've got to have certain guiding principles so we

Andrew McLaughlan:

can navigate that landscape because we, we, we're scared of going over the edge.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But that's no longer a truth.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's not the paradigm we live in.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're in a spherical world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And there's others as well.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's like the geocentric theory of the, of the, of the Earth is that

Andrew McLaughlan:

there was once a time where we thought that the sun went round the Earth.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And it made a terrible time for seasons, for, for farming,

Andrew McLaughlan:

our calendars misaligned.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then we, we removed the misunderstanding that no, the earth

Andrew McLaughlan:

goes around the sun and things started to align and synchronize.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that understanding the world we're in, how life operates is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

far superior than needing to, to do anything at maybe the, the level

Andrew McLaughlan:

one and two interventions or even sort of mindset or self developing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, look at nature.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I got probably 5, 000 conifer trees up behind us on the mountain, and I haven't

Andrew McLaughlan:

heard them once do an affirmation, an incantation, look at, at maybe

Andrew McLaughlan:

looking at what, you know, have they got to work on, on their growth?

Andrew McLaughlan:

They just do, right?

Rob:

No, 100%.

Rob:

Um, I think this is another great segue into sort of how to

Rob:

make this practical for people.

Rob:

Uh, we've had an amazing conversation thus far, but when someone's trying to,

Rob:

to create change, um, perhaps they're working here, perhaps they're not.

Rob:

How do you sort of guide someone through a, a process sort of practically where.

Rob:

They are able to, to instigate this change and to then stick to these

Rob:

changes on, on, on a practical level.

Rob:

Are you utilizing any tools, um, specifically, uh, uh, things like HRV?

Rob:

I know you've mentioned that previously as well.

Rob:

Um, maybe to, does that make sense?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It does.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It makes pure sense, Rob.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and what's coming through me is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We can't teach a child to become a teen.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's osmosis, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's evolution.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so we don't know what we don't know.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like Carl Jung said, until we make the unconscious conscious, it's going

Andrew McLaughlan:

to continually, uh, sort of, sort of run us if, if that makes sense.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So people, you know, it's, It's a conversation, I mean, spending time with

Andrew McLaughlan:

people that can listen, truly listen, hold space, and to just be a mirror to

Andrew McLaughlan:

what they're hearing, like what I do is like, okay, it's real, what's going

Andrew McLaughlan:

on is real, but is it a truth, like, is it on the show now, and is it true for

Andrew McLaughlan:

all beings, and if it's not, it's real.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Then it's not true.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That opens the door to change.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But there's a precursor because, again, people don't know what they don't know.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Everyone's got a VR headset on with where they're at, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

And life Looks that way to them like I often use this one like if you saw me and

Andrew McLaughlan:

and I was with you with my wife I had a VR headset on and I was acting out because I

Andrew McLaughlan:

was seeing a certain game or something And I actually reached out like and I caught

Andrew McLaughlan:

my wife in the face Then your reaction to that would be bloody hell careful, buddy.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Watch where you're going Now if I took that VR headset off and I had

Andrew McLaughlan:

done the same strike and caught my wife across the face Your reaction

Andrew McLaughlan:

will be completely different, I guess.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's like, you're like, dude, what are you doing?

Andrew McLaughlan:

You've just, you've just struck your wife in the chops.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because everyone's behaving, and it's a metaphor, for how they see their world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So, that's why an alcoholic drinks.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's why a drug user uses.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's why a workaholic is chained to his desk.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's why a thinkaholic is, is constantly in his habituated thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because the paradigm, the, the, the life that he's seeing, she

Andrew McLaughlan:

is seeing, makes sense to them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So if life is going on up there and I gotta react to life, and it's um, it's

Andrew McLaughlan:

scary and, and stress and, and all the stuff that, you know, even discouragement

Andrew McLaughlan:

and fear comes from out there, then I'm gonna wanna break from this.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I, I, I am going to want to numb, whether that's taking myself away, whether

Andrew McLaughlan:

that's, that's maybe having a few drinks.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm going to need to just take the sharpness off life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That makes sense.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's only that I can sit by someone and look at the world they're seeing

Andrew McLaughlan:

and, and, and totally get in that world and loving, appreciating, and

Andrew McLaughlan:

understanding their world is where you can really look to influences to say,

Andrew McLaughlan:

well, do you know what, what I'm seeing?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's not what I'm seeing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's what I'm seeing from where you are at.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Your level of grounding, but it's not what I'm seeing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That, that is enough to like make their, their foundations a little bit shaky.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So to answer your question, that's where I feel the door of change is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I know I've given an example, like a coaching example, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

life will give you a two by four.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It did with me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I had health anxiety, crippling health anxiety.

Andrew McLaughlan:

At thinking, I was unwell.

Andrew McLaughlan:

My physical body wasn't, um, but I had a, I had a, I had a thinking problem.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um,

Andrew McLaughlan:

so,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you know, I, I, I think that the change in a coaching environment can

Andrew McLaughlan:

create the conditions to allow people to have insight, to realize perhaps

Andrew McLaughlan:

what's going on for them isn't true.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It needs dissolving or solving.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Life will give you plenty of what we call significant emotional events.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It can offer you a, you know, a circumstance, losing a loved

Andrew McLaughlan:

one, losing your job, losing your business, uh, and, and, and.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and, and, and perhaps that's an opportunity, um, to, to, to realize that

Andrew McLaughlan:

as, as unfortunate and painful of, uh, of events they are, that the perpetual

Andrew McLaughlan:

state of suffering is self created.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, we're gonna get pain, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're gonna get our knocks.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so I think wisdom will find its way, whatever that is, because that, again,

Andrew McLaughlan:

those painful events, like my, my path, how it began, that curiosity was, I was

Andrew McLaughlan:

believing my thinking at such a level that I thought I was unwell when I wasn't.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's a clear thinking problem.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But fortunately I was in reaction at that point and I had some people

Andrew McLaughlan:

in my world that I could rely on.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I went to a doctor who was like incredible.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And he said, we're not giving you sleeping medication.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're not giving you anything else.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Here's a book.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that took me into the world of like cognitive behavioral therapy.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And at the time it was great.

Andrew McLaughlan:

to, to, to hear that, you know, well, fight or flight, like this,

Andrew McLaughlan:

this fear response is primitive.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but now we can get switched on with like an argument with

Andrew McLaughlan:

your wife or a certain message you get or comment on social media.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like seeing that it was invisible before, like quick story.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I was working with a client up in Derby last year.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Might've even been here before.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and his, his child was suffering, newborn baby, suffering with a

Andrew McLaughlan:

respiratory issue, completely congested.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and at the time I was like he was trying all the things on

Andrew McLaughlan:

a surface level, like cleaning up nutrition, got him off all the baby

Andrew McLaughlan:

formula because he's just rancid and it's a lot of offenders in there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But I was like, what, what, what's the, is there any mold in your house?

Andrew McLaughlan:

And he was like, what do you mean by that?

Andrew McLaughlan:

So we had a conversation about more than what, anyway, what we found

Andrew McLaughlan:

was above the door in the bedroom of the baby's room, there was,

Andrew McLaughlan:

there was damp, there was watering grass, there was mold in the room.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, they were on the floor at the service level, maybe

Andrew McLaughlan:

at that objective reality.

Andrew McLaughlan:

trying to do the best they can because everyone is right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And it wasn't until we made something that was invisible to them.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It was always there, but now made it visible.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They could see it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Problem went away.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Elfie baby in no time.

Rob:

That's incredible.

Rob:

I think, yeah, no, this is sort of reshaping my whole reality right now.

Rob:

Um, it's really about.

Rob:

Sort of helping someone identify what they don't know at the end of the day

Rob:

and then sort of pointing them into the direction that they feel they need to go.

Rob:

That's what I'm taking away from this.

Rob:

I don't know if that's sort of in any way, shape or form correct.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Indeed Ron, I just want to rudely interject

Andrew McLaughlan:

there because you're right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's when I'm here, like I'm in Beta Brainwave now and we're pitching and

Andrew McLaughlan:

catching Q& A. Um, as much as I'm trying to settle and articulate and

Andrew McLaughlan:

trying to describe like the formless and the invisible as best I can.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's been great to just go back and forth

Andrew McLaughlan:

with the level of questioning you have.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because yeah, you've encapsulated it really neatly in that the world

Andrew McLaughlan:

is perhaps not how you think it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And all we ever get is the feeling of our thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But there's a world beyond our thinking.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that for me is transformation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is that you're helping people be in a different world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's neatly, I mean, we've, you know, the, the, the principles, like I

Andrew McLaughlan:

said, uh, and maybe the paradigm, seeing it as it is, it makes sense to me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

All behavior does.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But if I can show you a different world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You've got a new life.

Rob:

You do, indeed.

Rob:

Andrew, I want to be respectful of your time, but before we sort of, uh, end

Rob:

this conversation, I would just like to ask you a few rapid fire questions.

Rob:

They're always great just to sort of, well, encapsulate what we've

Rob:

talked about, but also just pick your brain on a few separate topics.

Rob:

Um, you can ask them as quickly, uh, or as, Uh, concisely as you like, but first

Rob:

up gratitude practices and journaling.

Rob:

Do you think these have a place in transformational coaching

Rob:

and, uh, or life in general?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Absolutely.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, I mean, I know this is quickfire and I've got a real way of

Andrew McLaughlan:

articulation that is lengthy, but, um, it, yeah, I mean, again, that

Andrew McLaughlan:

door of change, what you alluded to.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, I think journaling makes sense, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It still does to me now.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, there's nothing mightier than the pen.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, but the one power in journaling is, you know, if you can differentiate

Andrew McLaughlan:

what's going on here in imagination, in mind, in thought, like if you

Andrew McLaughlan:

can, if you can put disparity, if you can put that out on paper, there's,

Andrew McLaughlan:

there's something that is felt there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Can't put it into words, but it's like, it's over there and it's

Andrew McLaughlan:

not me, which it isn't really.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That, that habituation and obsession of self is like, all this is going on.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's like, it's only me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so yeah, there's definitely journal.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I think that that entry points to maybe a way forward to change,

Andrew McLaughlan:

to just change something in terms of your experience of life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Of course it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a class of experience of what I call.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It feels good.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's good for you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's good for others and it serves the greater good.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's what I call a class one experience.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so absolutely lit, lit, lit your life with that as much as possible.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'd like to give you an insight into like a class three experience

Andrew McLaughlan:

is, is that it feels good.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not good for you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It doesn't serve the greater good and it's not good for others.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, uh, it's sort of a obtainable way to change your state.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that could be like the levels of behavior that we said about thinkaholic,

Andrew McLaughlan:

workaholic, alcoholic, and, and, and.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So class three experiences easily, because they're easy to obtain,

Andrew McLaughlan:

uh, we can easily fall into those.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and, and, and so suppose if you want to look at something tangible,

Andrew McLaughlan:

like life is about converting.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, maybe those class three experiences into maybe class

Andrew McLaughlan:

one or class two experiences and that can make a legendary life.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean again, I would assert that it's it's again a rearranging imaginary

Andrew McLaughlan:

furniture because once you get a deep understanding for how life

Andrew McLaughlan:

works All that becomes a little bit.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Okay, maybe you it's just effortless from there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but can be great So yeah journaling a great class of experience helps

Andrew McLaughlan:

disparity, helps get something out of, out of what's going on inside,

Andrew McLaughlan:

making that invisible, visible.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and that awareness creates a pattern and seeing a pattern can be

Andrew McLaughlan:

curative because that creates a way.

Rob:

Perfect answer.

Rob:

I think the next one probably be similar.

Rob:

Um, but what are your thoughts on religion, having a higher power, having.

Rob:

Something you believe in that sort of exceeds, uh, our understanding of

Rob:

the Cercle realm, whatever it is, uh, Christianity, Buddhism, um, believing

Rob:

in the universe, do you think, uh, that is helpful in this life?

Rob:

Having that belief that there is something out there that exceeds,

Rob:

uh, exceeds us or was designed us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Absolutely.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, I know you suggested there, whether it's like spirituality,

Andrew McLaughlan:

whether it's religion, I mean, if it's, you know, there's a great Buddhist

Andrew McLaughlan:

quote that goes, all fingers the point to the moon and not the moon.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I think as long as we look at the oneness, uh, that makes sense to me,

Andrew McLaughlan:

how we get there, that's up to people.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'll never tell anyone what to truly believe, just live accordingly.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But yes, the oneness, the universe, the, the deeper intelligence that

Andrew McLaughlan:

is behind life, like when you really like settle into that, it takes a load

Andrew McLaughlan:

off our mind that it's not up to us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like we, we, we can rely.

Andrew McLaughlan:

on something that is, um, that is always there, that has always got us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But we think we don't, but it's up to us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But yeah, 100%.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So if, yeah, it's, it's more spiritual for me in terms of a lens

Andrew McLaughlan:

and I was born into Christianity.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but that's the curiosity, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, I'm also, um, a fan of the Tao Te Ching, which is Lao Tzu's fine

Andrew McLaughlan:

work, uh, and the 81 chapters there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

What a great teaching, you know, they teach simplicity,

Andrew McLaughlan:

uh, compassion and patience.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'm like, That's it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They're three.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That trifecta, again, if I'm to talk about principles, like mind consciousness

Andrew McLaughlan:

thought, like the principles behind the work of the Tao Te Ching, it's like, wow.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so I'm forever grateful, you know, I got a little creed up the back there and

Andrew McLaughlan:

it says, learn from those before us, um, because success does leave those clues.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and yeah, so I, I believe that knowing that we've got a life partner.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The oneness, whatever it is, whatever finger you want to

Andrew McLaughlan:

use, makes pure sense to me.

Rob:

Perfect.

Rob:

Two more.

Rob:

Um, building resilience.

Rob:

A lot of people have sort of gotten to this idea that they've got to eat the

Rob:

frog first thing in the morning, uh, do something hard to start the day off,

Rob:

whether it's an ice bath or doing a workout or yeah, it could be something

Rob:

we've just discussed like journaling.

Rob:

Um, do you think that the, that is, a case to be made about doing these

Rob:

sort of hard things first off in the day to build resilience so that you

Rob:

can utilize that almost as a backbone for, for change going forwards.

Rob:

Do you think doing these hard things first thing in the morning

Rob:

is, is conducive to, to change?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yes.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, do I answer it in one word?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yes.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, I think, I think the, the, the misunderstanding is that we need

Andrew McLaughlan:

to do something for resilience.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I don't necessarily subscribe to that anymore because resilience is innate.

Andrew McLaughlan:

just like any of the core states that we want.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like it's there if we remove that misunderstanding that, that maybe

Andrew McLaughlan:

we're not really perceiving a world as it is, as it unfolds.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That will take so much away.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That will, that will allow us to tap into that, uh, innate resilience, if you like.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but yes.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I believe in, you know, we we're in the domain of, of our experience,

Andrew McLaughlan:

which is created through psychology.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it makes sense to me to use your language, eat the frog, chew

Andrew McLaughlan:

the wood, do something difficult.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, I mean, that's, my life's littered with things like that because it's fun.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I can do it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's nice to talk to people about it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm not trying to get anything from it, like the, the cold exposure.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, I mean, yeah, it's, you know, it's, it's a flood of the, um, you know,

Rob:

the endorphins

Andrew McLaughlan:

and the, the neurochemicals.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's a state change for sure.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, I do it for more from a physical perspective because, you know,

Andrew McLaughlan:

temperature fluctuation, certainly extremes, helps with hormones.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It helps with the lymph flash.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it makes sense to me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And you're right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Doing it is hard.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And on the other side, it does feel good, but you know, I'm not

Andrew McLaughlan:

looking to get anything from it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not really going to correct me in any way if I got.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, something in terms of like a misunderstanding that's going on.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I don't think anything like the tools and practice that we're

Andrew McLaughlan:

gifted to have will necessarily change, uh, how we see in our world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But that's just a viewpoint of mine.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like I'm not looking to be, to be right here, but that's just certainly

Andrew McLaughlan:

the direction I'm looking in.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So yeah, doing something hard, doing something, setting

Andrew McLaughlan:

yourself up in the morning.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But also Rob, I think the way I'm seeing life at the moment,

Andrew McLaughlan:

there's nothing better than.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, I, I got a strict rule with caffeine because of adenosine.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I don't, don't tend to take on caffeine inside of the first hour of working, but

Andrew McLaughlan:

there's something certainly this time of year, certainly the, uh, where, where

Andrew McLaughlan:

we are geographically is putting on my, putting on my gown, putting my head over

Andrew McLaughlan:

and just having a little bit of, I call it meditation, but it's more a reflection

Andrew McLaughlan:

and a thanks to those in my world and those who are no longer in, in 3d reality.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and, and, and, and, Just maybe some gentle foam rolling, stretching, and

Andrew McLaughlan:

just a cup of coffee, contemplation, and reading some good books.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I don't necessarily think we need to do, you know, we cut with,

Andrew McLaughlan:

we're hypnotizing to just looking where the light's better, and that's

Andrew McLaughlan:

a metaphor to say, well, if what you're looking for is there, surely

Andrew McLaughlan:

there is a better place to be.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so I don't think we do ourselves a disservice, um, service there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I think it's all innocent.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But yeah, do, do, do something art if that makes sense to you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But what I would assert is once you deeply understand how life works,

Andrew McLaughlan:

some of the stuff that perhaps you do because you think you should be

Andrew McLaughlan:

doing it will stop making sense.

Rob:

Perfect answer again.

Rob:

Okay.

Rob:

Final question for the listeners may be stuck in life and just what three pieces

Rob:

of basic advice would you give them to start them on their journey to help

Rob:

them getting it to a place where they feel like they're making progress again?

Andrew McLaughlan:

This is, um, it's a beautiful question.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The one thing that comes to mind when you speak of advice is when

Andrew McLaughlan:

we need advice, we can't hear it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And when we can hear it, we don't need it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I don't want to be a right dick here and piss over the question

Andrew McLaughlan:

because I'm going to answer it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but I believe the.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, that's what we're very good at, Rob.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I heard a quote once, is that everyone's looking to plug their umbilical

Andrew McLaughlan:

cord into something or someone, and it's quite a crude metaphor.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but that, that, that's the way I see it now, is you are where you are,

Andrew McLaughlan:

you've got what you've got, you're seeing what you're seeing, and just

Andrew McLaughlan:

know you've got it all going for you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And I'm not speaking to you, I'm just speaking to whoever listens to this.

Andrew McLaughlan:

is, is, yeah, once you can allow that habituated thinking to, to,

Andrew McLaughlan:

to, to sort of soften, to fall away, to quieten, you'll be guided.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, but I get it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You want something more surface level and, you know, again, because what I

Andrew McLaughlan:

would say is number one would be love.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's what's behind me there is love is all we need.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You know, the Beatles were on to it.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But I think they put a blanket over anything.

Andrew McLaughlan:

If you kill people with love, something magical happens.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But the misconception again, the misunderstanding is love is a verb.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But it's not something we give.

Andrew McLaughlan:

No one can give you anything.

Andrew McLaughlan:

They can act as a catalyst to reveal what's already inside of you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that love comes from inside, just like resilience, just like security.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The, the illusion is that it's out there in space and time or

Andrew McLaughlan:

on the other side of something.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But again, I want to give people.

Andrew McLaughlan:

something where they're at.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so the three I would, I would likely give is, is some sort of

Andrew McLaughlan:

what you touched on in your previous question is spiritual evolution

Andrew McLaughlan:

is know that it's not all on you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You can let go of control.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You can take a day off from that because that's what chokes most people up.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not, not up to you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You've got to be in creation.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You've got to be a certain being to go, to go out there and create because we

Andrew McLaughlan:

can, you don't have to, but you can.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And you've, you know, it's got to be rooted in a, in a warmth

Andrew McLaughlan:

and a desire and a love too.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So some sort of spiritual evolution, I got a theory untested that

Andrew McLaughlan:

the more spiritual poverty we have, the more we suffer, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

The more that we think it's all on us and we get plenty of knocks there because

Andrew McLaughlan:

we resist, we resist what is right.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's either that we, we have something we don't want or we

Andrew McLaughlan:

want something we don't have.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's got, it's, it's got its roots in some sort of suffering that

Andrew McLaughlan:

we're not accepting life as it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that's the one is, is I would embark on and that's what's changed me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like when I went to the doctor and he gave me a book about behavioral therapy

Andrew McLaughlan:

and things is that opened me up to like some sort of Chinese philosophy of, of,

Andrew McLaughlan:

of being an Eastern, Eastern tradition.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and that opened me up to, to spirituality and I think, yeah, that,

Andrew McLaughlan:

that makes sense to me to embark on something, whether it's religion like

Andrew McLaughlan:

you, is that some sort of faith surface level of that word would be certainty,

Andrew McLaughlan:

but instead of looking for control and certainty in your outside environment.

Andrew McLaughlan:

You've got more certainty and control in our insight.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that makes sense to me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that, that would be number one.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then I think what I've spoke about, which I haven't really double clicked

Andrew McLaughlan:

on, but is what creates experience.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like if one thing I pray for my girls every morning is the three

Andrew McLaughlan:

things is health, uh, it's know what creates your experience and thirdly.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Know how truly awesome you are.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Know that you are a diamond.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like, like, really, they're extremely powerful.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But I get people are where they're at, they see them what they're seeing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But it would be to know that you're living in the feeling of your thinking,

Andrew McLaughlan:

and not in the feeling of the world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Looks that way.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But we're not in the feeling of people, circumstances, events,

Andrew McLaughlan:

situations, past, future.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're tuned into the, to our thinking right now.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And that's all we get.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The feeling we're in is all we get.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So that would be number two.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then number three, I suppose would be, it's a little bit on

Andrew McLaughlan:

thread with the spirituality pieces, embracing life as it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Like again, that resistance, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

That, that perpetuation of suffering.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We all, me too.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

I have moments of that until, again, you've got the awareness that, that,

Andrew McLaughlan:

that it doesn't, doesn't stay around.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But that, that resistance to worry.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So embracing life as it is can take away and remove those prison bars.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It can remove the cage and something magical happens on the other side.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So they would be my three.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I believe that that was spiritual evolution.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, it would be to understand what creates our experience moment to moment.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And then thirdly is to.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Is to understand that life is unfolding as it is, doesn't mean you've got

Andrew McLaughlan:

to put up with it, be the change, but I mean, just accept how it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So they would be my, my, my three, even though love was there at the beginning,

Andrew McLaughlan:

because that is the one, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're never not in love.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Love is not something we give.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Love is who we are.

Andrew McLaughlan:

The essence of who we are is love, but that maybe is for another kind of story.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm

Rob:

just reflecting on all three of those now.

Rob:

I think that's quite possibly the best answer I've ever had to that question.

Rob:

So thank you, Andrew, this has been amazing and I can't wait until we do

Rob:

another one, but for the moment, where is the best place people can find

Rob:

you if they want to work with you?

Rob:

I know that you have an event coming up, uh, called awake, which

Rob:

is something that looks amazing.

Rob:

Um, so feel free to talk about that as well, but yeah, what's where's the,

Rob:

the best place people can connect.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Well, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a digital dinosaur.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, I, I. Put value out there into the world because it's,

Andrew McLaughlan:

it's something I want to do.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So social media, I mean, Instagram at Andrew McLaughlin coaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, I believe the analysing McLaughlin coaching website is andrewmclaughlin.

Andrew McLaughlan:

co. uk.

Andrew McLaughlan:

and LinkedIn as well.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So there's a few handles to, to, to, um, to look at and explore.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I'm a human being.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I answer everyone who poses a question or just wants to ask

Andrew McLaughlan:

something, always open for IMU to help to contribute, to grow and give.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, yeah, there's a couple of ways to work.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, I am venturing 2025 is going to see more group dynamic coaching,

Andrew McLaughlan:

which we'll speak about briefly, which is, which is the, uh, the intro into

Andrew McLaughlan:

the event or in Ibiza, which is awake.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, one on one coaching is my, it's probably my signature.

Andrew McLaughlan:

product, which is to create a living masterpiece, which is the

Andrew McLaughlan:

grounds of freedom is being able to see a completely different world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, and I also do intensives, uh, for someone who doesn't, you know, is not

Andrew McLaughlan:

ready for maybe a six, 12 month journey.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and we'll just do a deep dive one day, two days, weekend place of choice.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, yeah, to, to add massive value.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So you can invite me into your, into your world.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so you can create that masterpiece and you can change

Andrew McLaughlan:

how you feel, how you behave.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, So there's, there's the, the social media handles.

Andrew McLaughlan:

That's how I work.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, Awake is pretty special, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

Co creating that event with my good mate, Jamie.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're putting on, um, a reconnect.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's not a retreat.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's a reconnect.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's coming back home.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's blueprint changing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, largely what we talked about here, it's going to be lifted with all the good,

Andrew McLaughlan:

Tools, the treats, the techniques, the practices, yoga, breathwork, hot, cold.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're going to have some great food.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's all sustainable sourced on the island.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're in a hotel called Kansalia in Kaledubu.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's an amazing place.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Great owners.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, uh, are aligned with what it is we want to, we want to

Andrew McLaughlan:

serve up and it's west facing.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So we'll get lots of sunsets.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Vedra.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're going to do a lot of grounding, a lot of integration.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're going to be doing a lot of teaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's going to be one on one coaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's going to be group coaching.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's going to be, we're getting the art of the delivery, uh, which is fine.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Because as Quincy Jones said, who, uh, he passed last year is when he's in creation,

Andrew McLaughlan:

he's a music producer, is that he creates and then he leaves room for God.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I know that's got implications, but.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I think we've got to be guided as well, uh, but it's going to be impactful.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, so yeah, we're, we're, we're interviewing for, for candidates

Andrew McLaughlan:

11 souls, open to more or to less.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's going to be what it is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and on there will be what we call mechanics, which I know you've asked

Andrew McLaughlan:

Rob, and I haven't done it, Um, justice really in that the metrics like looking

Andrew McLaughlan:

at blood work, like I do it, do it for my family, my clients is looking at

Andrew McLaughlan:

what I'd call like the dashboard lights, have a look what's, um, what's showing

Andrew McLaughlan:

up, uh, from, from blood, um, looking up or around clients, you know, and

Andrew McLaughlan:

participants will get an order ring.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So we can look at biometrics, like certainly outresting heart rate and HRV.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, which is our variability without diving into that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's some surface level metrics that we can look at, uh, and influence, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

We, we, we can get better at these stuff.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There was one story, it was all automatic.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We couldn't do it, but we can.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Um, and also DNA swabbing DNA.

Andrew McLaughlan:

There's a few, few genes that we can.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Again, this is, this is a bit of a, a rabbit hole, but we can, we can

Andrew McLaughlan:

influence, you know, epigenetics flies in the face of it all, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

That we can override that with perception and blood.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, well that, that creates the environment and it's the

Andrew McLaughlan:

environment that influences the gene.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So even though the gene might be loaded or predisposed, predisposed,

Andrew McLaughlan:

doesn't mean that that expresses, but it's worth knowing, right?

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's about making that invisibility.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, it gives you your training type, your chronotype, uh, lets

Andrew McLaughlan:

you know whether you're a type A, I think you've alluded to that.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So there's some stuff worth knowing, but more than anything.

Andrew McLaughlan:

like certainly like the COMT gene, uh, WariaWaria, and also the, um,

Andrew McLaughlan:

methylation gene, like I'm in that club, pretty much 50 percent of us,

Andrew McLaughlan:

Northern Hemisphere, uh, certainly UK.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So it's worth knowing that, like behavior first, maybe nutrition.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, but also some targeted supplementation as well.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I think we're entering into the world of personalization for physical health.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, that makes sense to me.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I've been, you know, gone on a, uh, I've spent some time with some bright minds.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's like, you can't just put yourself in a bucket of carnivore

Andrew McLaughlan:

keto and all the others.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's, it's, it's what works for you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It truly is.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Uh, so it's a highly personalized journey, but you know, without,

Andrew McLaughlan:

without going on you, that, that is a way you can reach out to us.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We've got a handle there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

We're filtering for, you know, people that, that we want to

Andrew McLaughlan:

know why they want to be on this.

Andrew McLaughlan:

It's going to be impactful.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And there's a couple of ways to work with me, um, exclusively as well.

Andrew McLaughlan:

So I'm hoping that answered your final questions there.

Andrew McLaughlan:

But it's honestly, Rob, it's been a pleasure.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I mean, me and you connected, like you said, a couple of years back,

Andrew McLaughlan:

been in touch and I, and I feel you.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I feel your journey.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I love your authenticity.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I love your truth telling vulnerability.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And.

Andrew McLaughlan:

Yeah, it's, um, it's, you know, you're certainly someone I want

Andrew McLaughlan:

to spend more time with, get you involved in the projects.

Andrew McLaughlan:

And so I'm showing up and giving a bit of time and love to what you create in here.

Andrew McLaughlan:

I fully, fully love and appreciate you, man.

Rob:

That's amazing.

Rob:

Just thank you so much.

Rob:

And yes, we'll, we'll definitely link to all of those socials in the show

Rob:

notes as well as awake and yeah, I just can't wait until a, we do this again

Rob:

and, and be, um, what's awake brings.

Rob:

So yes.

Rob:

Uh, same to you as well.

Rob:

Thank you for all that you bring to the world and, um, yeah, I

Rob:

can't wait to do this again.

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About the Podcast

vP life
Discussions on the latest in longevity science, health and functional medicine
vP Life, brought to you by vitalityPRO, provides you with expert advice from leading voices in the functional and integrative medicine world.

Irrespective of the guest and topic, our discussions will aim to educate and provide you with the tools and information you need to create change in your life.

About your host

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Robert Underwood